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icallfouls Tue Jun 03, 2008 02:38pm

Camp - Best Lecture Topic
 
What is the best topic discussed at camp that helped you the most? How and Why?

We are putting a camp on this year and we want to keep it fresh.

Thanks in advance.

rockyroad Tue Jun 03, 2008 03:48pm

Have someone talk about professionalism and what is expected of officials...also maybe have someone talk about attitiude - controlling what you can and not worrying about what you can't.

Mark Padgett Tue Jun 03, 2008 03:49pm

I recommend a lengthy discussion on the topic of anticipation of calls. We've discussed the pros and cons of this many times here and I think this topic is one of the most important and influential on how games are called. Also, if you are working mostly with HS level officials, stress making the same call the same way from the opening tip to the closing horn. If you are working mostly with NBA level officials, be sure to give them red pens so they can strike through the sections in the rulebook on traveling and palming - assuming there are any in the first place. ;)

MikeK27 Tue Jun 03, 2008 04:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad
Have someone talk about professionalism and what is expected of officials...also maybe have someone talk about attitiude - controlling what you can and not worrying about what you can't.

I have only been to one camp, but they did talk quite a bit about professionalism and what it means to you as an official. Then they discussed what they expect from the official. Being new to the profession, I thought it was a good place to start.

JugglingReferee Tue Jun 03, 2008 04:14pm

Conflict resolution. Deontology. How the two work together to manage a game.

BillyMac Tue Jun 03, 2008 04:49pm

Deontology ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
Deontology.

"Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don't know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use". Ernest Hemingway

Ernie may know them. I certainly don't. Deontology ???

http://re3.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/25/m1/1941578652

BillyMac Tue Jun 03, 2008 05:05pm

Anticipate The Play, Not The Call ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
I recommend a lengthy discussion on the topic of anticipation of calls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO9EJ...eature=related

Scrapper1 Tue Jun 03, 2008 05:59pm

Two topics that were very helpful to me were:

1) What to cover in a good pre-game conference with your partner(s);
2) Things that help you in trying to "move up" or get hired.

Nevadaref Tue Jun 03, 2008 06:41pm

One that should be discussed, but I have never heard is COURAGE.

What does that mean? Here's a quick sample:

Having the courage to make the tough call.
Calls in the last few minutes of a game,
and especially calls that are correct, but other refs don't normally make,
the willingness to call an intentional foul,
the willingness to T a coach or player.
Not allowing unsporting behavior to go unpunished, not allowing a coach to intimidate and get a call for his team by yelling at the officials.
Making the calls for which the fans boo.

Dan_ref Tue Jun 03, 2008 07:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
One that should be discussed, but I have never heard is COURAGE.

A brain.

A heart.

A home.

Oooooooh....

We're off to see the Wizard...

Jurassic Referee Tue Jun 03, 2008 07:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref
A brain.

A heart.

A home.

Oooooooh....

We're off to see the Wizard...

You left out a munchkin.

Mark Padgett Tue Jun 03, 2008 07:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref
A brain.

A heart.

A home.

Oooooooh....

We're off to see the Wizard...

Did you ever notice how much the Wicked Witch of the West looks like Billy Packer? Here's Packer with Jay Bilas.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.ya...izardofoz1.jpg

NYBLUE Tue Jun 03, 2008 08:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by icallfouls
What is the best topic discussed at camp that helped you the most? How and Why?

We are putting a camp on this year and we want to keep it fresh.

Thanks in advance.

Correctable Errors.

Make up some casebook plays and instruct campers how to fix a correctable error. Also, tell them how to handle the coaches in those situations.

Kelvin green Tue Jun 03, 2008 08:28pm

[QUOTE=Mark Padgett] We've discussed the pros and cons ... QUOTE]

I know I missed some board time but when did we discuss the Sonics? oh whoops they were the cons that were pros.... or was that Heidi Fliess who was a pro and a con?

Dan_ref Tue Jun 03, 2008 08:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
You left out a munchkin.

We're not allowed to anymore.

:(

Jurassic Referee Tue Jun 03, 2008 08:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref
We're not allowed to anymore.

:(

Wanna bet?:D

truerookie Wed Jun 04, 2008 01:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYBLUE
Correctable Errors.

Make up some casebook plays and instruct campers how to fix a correctable error. Also, tell them how to handle the coaches in those situations.

This is a good one for beginners!!

Ref_in_Alberta Wed Jun 04, 2008 09:10am

My contribution...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
Conflict resolution. Deontology. How the two work together to manage a game.

deontology (meaning 'obligation' or 'duty') is an approach to ethics that focuses on the rightness or wrongness of actions themselves, as opposed to the rightness or wrongness of the consequences of those actions.

Now Juggs stop trying to confuse people. :)
---

Camp topics -
- Moving up & what to do once you get there
- The 5 P's (Poise, Presence, Positioning, Partnering & Professionalism)
- Goal Setting

rockyroad Wed Jun 04, 2008 09:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref
A brain.

A heart.

A home.

Oooooooh....

We're off to see the Wizard...

You laugh, but icallfouls and I actually sat through a 70 min. lecture on how the Yellow Brick Road is a metaphor for our officiating careers...it was the most surreal 70 min. of my life.

And leave the munchkins alone.

Word.

bob jenkins Wed Jun 04, 2008 09:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad
You laugh, but icallfouls and I actually sat through a 70 min. lecture on how the Yellow Brick Road is a metaphor for our officiating careers...it was the most surreal 70 min. of my life.

And leave the munchkins alone.

Word.

It is a good metaphor for baseball umpiring. There's no place like home.

Jurassic Referee Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad
You laugh, but icallfouls and I actually sat through a 70 min. lecture on how the Yellow Brick Road is a metaphor for our officiating careers...it was the most surreal 70 min. of my life.

And leave the munchkins alone.

You're right. I laugh. Howinthehell did you guys ever keep a straight face during sumthin' like that?

Now, if was maybe a story about assignors and a munchkin singing "Ding-dong, the witch is dead", it mighta been a l'il more interesting.

JugglingReferee Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
You're right. I laugh. Howinthehell did you guys ever keep a straight face during sumthin' like that?

Now, if was maybe a story about assignors and a munchkin singing "Ding-dong, the witch is dead", it mighta been a l'il more interesting.

Why is that? Did the munchkin kill the assignor? HAHA

rockyroad Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
You're right. I laugh. Howinthehell did you guys ever keep a straight face during sumthin' like that?

Now, if was maybe a story about assignors and a munchkin singing "Ding-dong, the witch is dead", it mighta been a l'il more interesting.

Who said I kept a straight face??? The person giving the presentation was quite angry with me later in the camp when I told the campers not to take officiating so seriously - it's just something we do for fun and we need to keep it in it's place.

Made for some interesting conversations after the campers left.

Adam Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:04am

So, uhm, where did the flying monkeys fit into his little comparison?

rockyroad Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
So, uhm, where did the flying monkeys fit into his little comparison?

Who said "his"? And they were flying right straight out of my a$$!!

Dan_ref Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad
Who said "his"? And they were flying right straight out of my a$$!!

That must have hurt with those pointy spear things they carry.

BillyMac Wed Jun 04, 2008 05:01pm

Alphabet Soup ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref_in_Alberta
The 5 P's (Poise, Presence, Positioning, Partnering & Professionalism.

The Seven C’s of Good Officiating: Communication, Comportment, Consistency, Courage, Common Sense, and Calming Influence.

Adam Wed Jun 04, 2008 05:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad
Who said "his"? And they were flying right straight out of my a$$!!

Doh!

On both counts.

Adam Wed Jun 04, 2008 05:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac
The Seven C’s of Good Officiating: Communication, Comportment, Consistency, Courage, Common Sense, and Calming Influence.

And, depending on your assigner, castration.

BillyMac Wed Jun 04, 2008 05:13pm

Change For A Ten ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac
The Seven C’s of Good Officiating: Communication, Comportment, Consistency, Courage, Common Sense, and Calming Influence.

Sorry about the $10.00 word. I'm sure that someone can replace it with a $2.00 word.

Adam Wed Jun 04, 2008 05:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac
Sorry about the $10.00 word. I'm sure that someone can replace it with a $2.00 word.

How about "composure?" $5.00

SonikBoom Wed Jun 04, 2008 06:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac
The Seven C’s of Good Officiating: Communication, Comportment, Consistency, Courage, Common Sense, and Calming Influence.

thats only 6.

icallfouls -- I think you should help people remember all the details of correctable errors. remembering it all is so difficult. and especially whats NOT a correctable error.

Mark Padgett Wed Jun 04, 2008 06:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac
The Seven C’s of Good Officiating: Communication, Comportment, Consistency, Courage, Common Sense, and Calming Influence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonikBoom
thats only 6.

Number 7 is "Coach - you're outta here!" :eek:

Camron Rust Wed Jun 04, 2008 07:14pm

Forget correctable errors. In my mind, that'd be a waste of time to spend more than 5-10 minutes on. Sure, they're important. Sure, we need to know how to handle them. But, they're a topic will likely only be truely learned from careful study of the book, followed by messing one up, then more study of the book. Knowing them in detail is highly unlikely to ever really matter relative to other things that could be discussed.


I think the best topics for a "newer" crowd of officials have nothing to do with the mechanics or rules. It would be a discussion of having realistic expectations, attributes that differentiate different levels of officials(game/coach/conflict managment, poise, clamness, common sense, and uderstanding the game above the rules), and what is required to maximize thier abilities....realizing that making it to the top is not just about blowing the whistle (most officials can do that).

SonikBoom Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:37pm

[QUOTE=Camron Rust]
I think the best topics for a "newer" crowd of officials/QUOTE]

icallfouls didnt say what level. i think a good system for remembering the correctable errors could be taught in 10 or 15 minutes. it would be a big help to me, i think. i'd got o camp just for that one thing.

also, i don't thinki you needed to "rank" my idea. icallfouls didnt ask for us to dedice which ideas would be best. just to make suggestions. i want to learn correctable errors, okay?

JRutledge Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:47pm

The best lecture or presentation I ever saw was from John Adams, who was at the time the Horizon League Supervisor.

John talked about the business of officiating and showed how hard it was to get to the D1 Level. He also included the money of how schools made money and how that related to what officials were paid. I have seen him give this presentation 3 times and I am always fascinated by the presentation because it puts things in perspective as to how hard it is to get to that level.

Peace

SonikBoom Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
The best lecture or presentation I ever saw was from John Adams, who was at the time the Horizon League Supervisor.

John talked about the business of officiating and showed how hard it was to get to the D1 Level. He also included the money of how schools made money and how that related to what officials were paid. I have seen him give this presentation 3 times and I am always fascinated by the presentation because it puts things in perspective as to how hard it is to get to that level.

Peace

Well, I will never get to D1, and I dont want to spend any time on that. I suppose it depends on whose goin to the camp.

JRutledge Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonikBoom
Well, I will never get to D1, and I dont want to spend any time on that. I suppose it depends on whose goin to the camp.

He was speaking to people trying to get in his (D1, D2 and D3) conferences. He was not speaking to the average or newer officials that were just trying to figure out how to officiate. It was the best lecture that

Peace

Camron Rust Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonikBoom
Well, I will never get to D1, and I dont want to spend any time on that. I suppose it depends on whose goin to the camp.

Still, the same issues on a smaller scale face officials working their way to Varsity.

Camron Rust Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonikBoom
Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust
I think the best topics for a "newer" crowd of officials

icallfouls didnt say what level. i think a good system for remembering the correctable errors could be taught in 10 or 15 minutes. it would be a big help to me, i think. i'd got o camp just for that one thing.

also, i don't thinki you needed to "rank" my idea. icallfouls didnt ask for us to dedice which ideas would be best. just to make suggestions. i want to learn correctable errors, okay?

I've maybe had 4-6 correctable error situations in my career of who knows how many games. Even if I got every one of them wrong, it wouldn't have dramatically impacted my career. (I've got two wrong that I know of).

However, there are far more times I could have better handled players/coaches, far more times I could have had a better position, far more times I could have held my whistle and passed on a call, far more times I could do things better that happen every single game.

Sure CE's a interesting academic topic, and I very much enjoy such topics. However, paying campers deserved to get a topic that will help them frequently rather than rarely.

Adam Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:36pm

Personally, I think handling coaches should be a topic for all newcomers.

Jurassic Referee Thu Jun 05, 2008 06:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust
Forget correctable errors. In my mind, that'd be a waste of time to spend more than 5-10 minutes on. Sure, they're important. Sure, we need to know how to handle them. But, they're a topic will likely only be truly learned from careful study of the book, followed by messing one up, then more study of the book. Knowing them in detail is highly unlikely to ever really matter relative to other things that could be discussed.


Fwiw, I agree completely. Correctable errors are fairly rare. Concentrate on and teach the basics first.....violations, what comprises a foul, mechanics, etc. Don't get into other subjects until/unless your campers have mastered these first. If you do have campers who are more experienced and have the basics down, then you can get into game management, calling philosophies,etc. They gotta learn to walk before they can run.

Match the camp to the campers. Jmo.

BillyMac Thu Jun 05, 2008 06:29am

And His Brother Invented Beer ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
The best lecture or presentation I ever saw was from John Adams

He must be good, he had his own miniseries on HBO, right?

http://sp1.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/25/m7/3763007022

bob jenkins Thu Jun 05, 2008 07:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Fwiw, I agree completely. Correctable errors are fairly rare. Concentrate on and teach the basics first.....violations, what comprises a foul, mechanics, etc. Don't get into other subjects until/unless your campers have mastered these first. If you do have campers who are more experienced and have the basics down, then you can get into game management, calling philosophies,etc. They gotta learn to walk before they can run.

Match the camp to the campers. Jmo.

Ditto. And, in my experience, no matter how much is covered / studied beforehand, it's nearly impossible to be "sure" you get it right once the first CE occurs. Then, you look it up afterwards and learn the most important CE rule: Take your time and don't have any more.

kmw Thu Jun 05, 2008 08:29am

Best talks I heard
 
1. The talk from Don Rutledge about "packing the chute" in relation to officiating. In turn, I took back what I learned at the camp to my local association.

2. A talk by Joe DeRosa that I remember every time I step on the court. "You never know who is in the stands and watching- do your best every time, no matter the level of the game". I (try) give my all at any game.

peace,

cdoug Thu Jun 05, 2008 08:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmw
1. The talk from Don Rutledge about "packing the chute" in relation to officiating. In turn, I took back what I learned at the camp to my local association.

Maybe it's because I'm just starting and don't know yet, but I was wondering what was meant by "packing the chute."

Raymond Thu Jun 05, 2008 08:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoug
Maybe it's because I'm just starting and don't know yet, but I was wondering what was meant by "packing the chute."

Hey, I'm going on 7 years and I've never heard the phrase before. Must be a regional thing. :cool:

rockyroad Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoug
Maybe it's because I'm just starting and don't know yet, but I was wondering what was meant by "packing the chute."

Means something different out West here than it does in, oh, say, Hackensac!:eek:

Jurassic Referee Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad
Means something different out West here than it does in, oh, say, Hackensac!:eek:

:D

Nevadaref Thu Jun 05, 2008 07:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoug
Maybe it's because I'm just starting and don't know yet, but I was wondering what was meant by "packing the chute."

I'm going to guess that the chute reference relates to skydiving. I have to believe that the metaphor would be about preparation. Something akin to if you don't take the time to properly prepare and pack your chute right before you jump, then you'd better be ready for a big fall when it doesn't open.

The basketball equivalent of study the rules, work on your fitness, have a proper pregame and put yourself in a position to succeed when you take the court rather than having some situation come up that you aren't prepared to handle and you crash down hard.

icallfouls Thu Jun 05, 2008 07:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad
You laugh, but icallfouls and I actually sat through a 70 min. lecture on how the Yellow Brick Road is a metaphor for our officiating careers...it was the most surreal 70 min. of my life.

I am still trying in therapy for that one. I always thought I should evaluate each play as they happen and then make a decision. I found myself calling 3 seconds in the yelow brick road....breathe, breathe... there's no place like.... i mean where's my happy place? :)

icallfouls Thu Jun 05, 2008 07:30pm

Some very excellent topics to be sure. I was intentionally vague so as not to have people eliminate any thing that interested them from this conversation. We are nearly done with our selection of topics. If anyone wants to know what we have let me know and I can list them.

Keep 'em coming

NYBLUE Thu Jun 05, 2008 08:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by icallfouls
Some very excellent topics to be sure. I was intentionally vague so as not to have people eliminate any thing that interested them from this conversation. We are nearly done with our selection of topics. If anyone wants to know what we have let me know and I can list them.

Keep 'em coming

Sure, what have you got so far?

Snake~eyes Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:32pm

Hands down best topic IMO, that is great for beginners or vets, (so it covers wide variety of experience you may have at a camp) is conflict resolution. My 2 cents.

Tio Fri Jun 06, 2008 01:11pm

One of my most memorable experiences at camp was watching an NBA official break down game film. It was an eye-opening experience and has totally changed my approach to watching tape.

DonInKansas Sun Jun 08, 2008 07:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
You left out a munchkin.

No, he left out "Da Noive".

And don't argue with a Kansan about the Wizard of Oz.:p

kmw Sun Jun 08, 2008 03:32pm

Packing the Chute
 
Here's the link to the website:
http://www.charlieplumb.com/book-insights.htm


Here is the story:

INSIGHTS INTO EXCELLENCE
Packing Parachutes - Excerpt from Chapter 16
By Charlie Plumb

Recently, I was sitting in a restaurant in Kansas City. A man about two tables away kept looking at me. I didn't recognize him. A few minutes into our meal he stood up and walked over to my table, looked down at me, pointed his finger in my face and said, "You're Captain Plumb."

I looked up and I said, "Yes sir, I'm Captain Plumb."

He said, "You flew jet fighters in Vietnam. You were on the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk. You were shot down. You parachuted into enemy hands and spent six years as a prisoner of war."

I said, "How in the world did you know all that?"

He replied, "Because, I packed your parachute."

I was speechless. I staggered to my feet and held out a very grateful hand of thanks. This guy came up with just the proper words. He grabbed my hand, he pumped my arm and said, "I guess it worked."

"Yes sir, indeed it did", I said, "and I must tell you I've said a lot of prayers of thanks for your nimble fingers, but I never thought I'd have the opportunity to express my gratitude in person."

He said, "Were all the panels there?"

"Well sir, I must shoot straight with you," I said, "of the eighteen panels that were supposed to be in that parachute, I had fifteen good ones. Three were torn, but it wasn't your fault, it was mine. I jumped out of that jet fighter at a high rate of speed, close to the ground. That's what tore the panels in the chute. It wasn't the way you packed it."

"Let me ask you a question," I said, "do you keep track of all the parachutes you pack?"

"No" he responded, "it's enough gratification for me just to know that I've served."

I didn't get much sleep that night. I kept thinking about that man. I kept wondering what he might have looked like in a Navy uniform - a Dixie cup hat, a bib in the back and bell bottom trousers. I wondered how many times I might have passed him on board the Kitty Hawk. I wondered how many times I might have seen him and not even said "good morning", "how are you", or anything because, you see, I was a fighter pilot and he was just a sailor. How many hours did he spend on that long wooden table in the bowels of that ship weaving the shrouds and folding the silks of those chutes? I could have cared less...until one day my parachute came along and he packed it for me.

So the philosophical question here is this: How's your parachute packing coming along? Who looks to you for strength in times of need? And perhaps, more importantly, who are the special people in your life who provide you the encouragement you need when the chips are down? Perhaps it's time right now to give those people a call and thank them for packing your chute."


Don told us this story to have us think about all the people that have packed our chute in basketball - to remember to thank them and to do the same for the up and coming younger officials. Its a great lesson - the challenge is packing the chute of the next official who may just take your place because they are better...

Kim

Ref_in_Alberta Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:37pm

I'd be interested to see your list...


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