A1 lays the ball up for a shot. Ball hits backboard, ball now ABOVE rim level, outside cylinder area from rim to ceiling, but still going up, B1 blocks the ball. What rule covers this? block or G/T?

I've never seen the "block" rule, so the goaltending rule must cover this. ;)

It's legal (FED and NCAA).

Maybe I didn't understand the question correctly. But I've got nothing. Play on.

Legal play. See the definitions for basket interference and goaltending. The only definitions that has to do with blocking deals with fouls and guarding and screening.

No, no, no, no, NO!!!!!!

This (or something similar) is only goaltending in the NBA. No matter how much the freakin' fans and coaches scream, this is a legal play.

Here's how to see the play:
(1) For BI, you need one of the following qualifications:
a. Ball in cylinder
b. Ball in/on basket
c. "Reaching through" rim

(2) For GT, you need all of the following qualifications:
a. TRY for goal
b. Ball in DOWNWARD flight
c. Ball entirely above rim
d. Possibility to go in

None of the qualifications in (1), and a and b in (2) [where b is the more important] are met, so this cannot be BI/Goaltending!

(Try explaining that to the GU athletics staff, though!)

though by rule it is not goaltending or BI but is a good rule of thumb to score this basket. the percentages are in your favor if you call this.

Why would you score this? It is "outside" of the cylinder, so it isn't going in anyway. Am I missing something here?

{b](Try explaining that to the GU athletics staff, though!){b]

I assume you are talking Hoyas here? I knew you attended college in the DC are, just didn't know which fine institution.

WHOOOOAAAAA NELLLLLLIEEEEE!!!

How can you can call a violation on B1 when no violation has occured? I do not want to hear about "rule of thumb." I want a logical (rules and casebook references) defense of why an official would, could, and should call a violation on a player when no violation (or foul) had occurred.

Is "rule of thumb" the same as "common sense"?

The original sitch by Bart said the ball was above the rim, so I think that crew is saying not to split hairs on this one and go with the percentages. I agree with you Mark T (ooh that hurts) in that we are not going to set aside a rule and make a call just because the fans think something has occurred. However, since we do not have instant replay to make these kinds of calls perfectly every time sometime we have to rely on our gut and instinct. I have been told the same type of thing on the shooter returning to the floor and calling a common foul vs. a shooting foul. I was told to make sure it is well after he comes to the floor before calling it a common foul and I think it makes a lot of sense to not split hairs on certain calls that could be called either way. If an assignor tells me to call this particular play goaltending then that's what I will do, otherwise I think you really have to see it and let your instinct and judgement takeover.

Once again, crew is just being crew. His "interpretation" is not right, even by the pro rules that I think he uses. In the NBA, it's sometimes permissible to block a shot after it has hit the backboard; but sometimes it's a violation even if the ball is still going up (depends on where the ball touched the backboard).

crew's advice amounts to, "If you're not sure, guess; b/c maybe you'll be right and nobody will argue anyway"; whereas I think most of us try to officiate by "If you're not sure, don't guess."

The rule of thumb is not to count the basket, but to see where the ball hit the backboard, if you're working the NBA. Otherwise, just worry about which direction the ball is going.

As usual, just my two cents

Chuck

Chuck,
NBA RULES, It is NEVER allowed to hit the ball once it has hit the
backboard.
Rule 11-1.d,e. A PLAYER SHALL NOT...
d. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight.
e. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.

That's why you see players get the ball to the backboard as soon as they can.
NBA rules, if it's on the board and you pick it off, it's
goaltending.;)

I stand humbly corrected. I misunderstood when this was explained to me at USBL camp. And I obviously didn't go look it up after I got my explanation. Thanks, Drake. I will make sure I don't get that screwed up again.

Here's a question about the rule, tho. Why isn't it written the way you initially worded it?



If you can never touch a try after it hits the backboard, why split the rule into "touching above the ring" and "touching below the ring"? I'm just curious.

Thanks again for sending me back to the actual rulebook!!

Chuck

touche' :)

NO!:p

Chuck,
check your e-mail.

And, ball must be outside the cylinder. :-)

Didn't we just go through all this with BI for slapping the backboard? :rolleyes:

I don't go there - just worked through them for the NCAA tournament!

The sad part,Mark,is that the percentages ARE in your favor of not getting any flak if you call GT in this case.Coaches,players,fans--they don't understand the nuances of the GT and BI rules.Call it GT and nobody is really going to moan about it.Once they see the ball hit the board and then somebody touches it,they want 2 awarded,no matter what.If you correctly don't call it,the roof IS going to come down on your head.That said,I certainly agree with you that a good official should make the proper call in this case,no matter what the consequences.If he/she doesn't,then they've put themselves into the position where they could have possibly unfairly affected the outcome of the game.
Crew,the right call and the popular call are two completely different animals.

"NBA RULES, It is NEVER allowed to hit the ball once it has hit the
backboard."

Ok. I have to eat my own words. Never say never.
If the ball does NOT have a chance to score and then gets hit off the board, it's legal.

crew's advice amounts to, "If you're not sure, guess; b/c maybe you'll be right and nobody will argue anyway"; whereas I think most of us try to officiate by "If you're not sure, don't guess."

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Here's my two cents... 'if you don't know, don't blow!' Better to explain why you didn't call, than to explain why you guessed!