Played in My First Rec League in 10 yrs...

[JoeTheRef]

I played in my first organized rec (Church) league in over 10 years. Disclaimer: I stink in basketball and this is why I officiate. Anyways, here's what I have. I had an official tonight who was pretty much clueless and it was evident from his opening pregame to all the players prior to tipoff. Unfortunately, he didn't realize how clueless he was and he didn't want to hear anything from the players as he stated. B1 catches the a loose ball and while possesing the ball, falls to the floor with no call. I asked clueless one how this isn't a travelling, he responds to me, apparently I didn't hear his pregame, he refs, I play. He continues to say that B1 can fall with the ball but he can't get up. I gave my scooby doo look, like HUH?? Fast forward to A1 attempting a free throw. He tells me that all players have to be behind the 3-point line (top of the key extended). I didn't say anything.

I approached the official after the game and ask about the free throw ruling and what rules were we playing and he calling by, he said High School (FED). I continued to ask the official if he minded if I gave him the proper ruling or what I thought that was the proper ruling, meaning behind the 3pt line and above the free throw line extended. He said I was wrong and where did I get that rule from. I told him and he insisted I was wrong so I walked away. I came back to the official and told him I wasn't trying to show him up or question him and apologized if I offended him. I really wanted him to realize that he shouldn't make these incorrect ruling statements on the floor because it may make him look like he doesn't know what he's talking about. Here's my question. How could I have approached this official in a positive more constructive way? I ask because I have a feeling he will be there every week. I know the assignor and he's the type to put the same guy in the same gym for the entire season, and he could careless what type of official he is putting on the court. Thanks in advance for your input.

[justacoach]

Hey, Joe...

Invite him to join this forum, we have some guys that can straighten him out...


Hope you had fun otherwise and didn't hurt your lip too much...

Later

[mick]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

How could I have approached this official in a positive more constructive way?

Excuse me, Ref. You got a minute ?
Excuse me, Ref, after the game do you have time for a cold one?

... Excuse me, Mr. Assignor. Do you have a minute?

[Nevadaref]

You can offer to officiate in this rec league yourself and work with the guy for a few games or you can not worry about it and just play.

[JRutledge]

The only qualification to work these leagues is a striped shirt and someone giving you the game. Why would you be surprised if the assignor does not care who he/she puts on the game?

The only way it would be worth approaching this official if he cared to get better. But you have a lot of weekend warrior types that only work these levels of games because it is "easy money" and they do not have much other responsibility than to blow a whistle for a short period of time.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Did he have a partner? You might have tried talking to him, or her, or it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You can offer to officiate in this rec league yourself and work with the guy for a few games or you can not worry about it and just play.

Bingo!

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

How could I have approached this official in a positive more constructive way?

Instead of "telling" him what the proper ruling should have been, I would've asked the same questions we ask those partners we get assigned with from time to time.

So how long have you been officiating?
Really

How did you get started?
Cool, I got started by...

How far do you want to go with this?
NOTE: MAY BE THE LAST QUESTION YOU NEED TO ASK DEPENDING UPON THIS ANSWER

What levels of ball do you work?
Really... you should join the HS association, we need more guys like you

What camps will you be attending this summer?
Yes, camps... that's one of the keys to us getting better at the craft.

I don't play anymore but since I work wreck, church, youth & summer hs ball I get all varieties of "partners". When I get one of those guys/gals, instead if telling them they did this wrong, I ask those questions to determine if it's even worth it to share the knowledge. You can generally tell how receptive they may/may not be by their answers & tone of voice. The conversation allows you to share your experience & aspirations without throwing your resume in their face.

That's official-to-official but I'm sure it could work in a player/official-to-official situation as well.

[grunewar]

Concur with Ch1 and JRut - an official, at any level, but especially REC, has to care about the game and reffing and want to get better....or unfortunately you're just wasting your time. Ask some good leading questions, as was stated earlier, and then determine for yourself whether its worth your time and effort.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

I played in my first organized rec (Church) league in over 10 years. Disclaimer: I stink in basketball and this is why I officiate. Anyways, here's what I have. I had an official tonight who was pretty much clueless and it was evident from his opening pregame to all the players prior to tipoff. Unfortunately, he didn't realize how clueless he was and he didn't want to hear anything from the players as he stated.

Was this a 1-man crew? And since do clueless people realize they are clueless? Isn't that why they are clueless in the first place?

How does this church league pay its officials?

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Was this a 1-man crew? And since do clueless people realize they are clueless? Isn't that why they are clueless in the first place?

How does this church league pay its officials?

The church league I used to play in doesn't pay the officials. You get a couple of guys/gals from each team to ref and most of them have NO idea about officiating. The league mandates teams to send represenitives to show up for a 2 hour clinic and expect them to ref 2 to 3 games during the season. Most of the time teams/players would bare the quality of officiating, but occasionally you'll have these smartasses that cry and ***** about calls when they know these refs are well below competent.

I'd say in a church league, just bare with it and have some fun. It's not always about winning!

[Adam]

My question:
Was he consistent? That's the most important thing, right?

[just another ref]

Bottom line: Seldom is anything accomplished by telling someone that he is doing a bad job at anything while he is doing that job. Talking to this person after the game to discuss rules? Some would be receptive, many would not.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

I'd say in a church league, just bare with it

This is my kind of church!!

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Instead of "telling" him what the proper ruling should have been, I would've asked the same questions we ask those partners we get assigned with from time to time.

So how long have you been officiating?
Really

How did you get started?
Cool, I got started by...

How far do you want to go with this?
NOTE: MAY BE THE LAST QUESTION YOU NEED TO ASK DEPENDING UPON THIS ANSWER

What levels of ball do you work?
Really... you should join the HS association, we need more guys like you

What camps will you be attending this summer?
Yes, camps... that's one of the keys to us getting better at the craft.

I don't play anymore but since I work wreck, church, youth & summer hs ball I get all varieties of "partners". When I get one of those guys/gals, instead if telling them they did this wrong, I ask those questions to determine if it's even worth it to share the knowledge. You can generally tell how receptive they may/may not be by their answers & tone of voice. The conversation allows you to share your experience & aspirations without throwing your resume in their face.

That's official-to-official but I'm sure it could work in a player/official-to-official situation as well.

Thanks for the good points. I find easy to do this as an official-to-official. Less experienced officials are more inclined to seek advice when they see me officiate or officiate with me. I actually took your advice with the other official and he was very receptive. I guess I can see where I may have erred in not doing the same with this guy.