NCAA-Shoe on the floor

[Larks]

I am being consistent. Team A has control of the ball in its front court. A1 is the midcourt area when his shoe comes off. A1 can stop what he is doing and put his shoe on. In the posted play, A1's opponent used nefarious means to pull A1's shoe off during play in the lane. While this is all happening a shot goes up in the lane, there are at least five or six players in the lane going after the rebound. One or more of these players could step on A1's shoe and possibly get hurt. This is not different if instead of A1's shoe being on the floor, A1's eye glasses or hearing aid could be on the floor. This situation is not even close to being like A1's shoe coming off while he is out in the midcourt area. [/QUOTE]

Wow MTD...."Nefarious". I had to look that one up.

Nefarious - Infamous by way of being extremely wicked.

or

Nefarious - Wicked in the extreme; abominable; iniquitous; atrociously villainous; execrable; detestably vile.

That my friend IS a 50 cent word!

Larks - Vocabulary Challenged

[Bart Tyson]

Well Mark, you still have not given me a rule saying we cannot hold play. I cannot recall the last time i had glasses on the floor. I don't think i have ever had College or HS varsity game with glasses on the floor. Maybe from time to time ( very rare) i might have seen someone ware sports glasses.
Are you saying in a College or HS varsity game, the ball is in the air and/or players rebounding, glasses go to the floor and you Will Beep, get your glasses, no basket, we go to the AP for team possession? I believe play will take care of itself.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Well Mark, you still have not given me a rule saying we cannot hold play. I cannot recall the last time i had glasses on the floor. I don't think i have ever had College or HS varsity game with glasses on the floor. Maybe from time to time ( very rare) i might have seen someone ware sports glasses.
Are you saying in a College or HS varsity game, the ball is in the air and/or players rebounding, glasses go to the floor and you Will Beep, get your glasses, no basket, we go to the AP for team possession? I believe play will take care of itself.

Let me address your second paragraph first. If a player goes down in the paint with an injury, how do you handle stopping play? If a player's glasses comes off in the paint, wouldn't you use the same criteria to stop play as you would for an injury? Of course you would. Depending on the situation, you might sound your whistle immediately, or wait until team control is established.

Now your first paragraph. I do not have my copy of the 1962-63 National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada in front of me, but if you go to page 13 of the 2000-02 NFHS Basketball Handbook and go to the year 1963. You will see "no time allowed to tie shoe lace, etc." In a side note you will see that the "force out" was eliminated during that school year also. If my memory is correct it was almost ten years before the NBA eliminated the force out.

As I have stated before, the Rules Committee placed an editorial comment in the rules stating that officials could no longer stop the game or withhold the ball from play so that a player could tie his shoe laces be deleting the rule that allowed the officials to do so. That is pretty clear to me. The Nat'l. Bkt. Comm. of the U.S. and Canada, was the predecessor to the NFHS and NCAA Rules Committees, and its rules and interpretations, are still enforce unless there is a subsequent change in the rules or interpretation.
The NFHS and NCAA has never made a rules or interpretation change pertaining to the situation, therefore the rule is still in effect. Since I do not have the 1962-63 rules book in front of me I cannot say for sure, but if my memory is correct, the deletion was made in a section of Rule 2, Officials and Their Duties.

I real regret that I do not have a copy of the 1961-62 rules book to compare with the 1962-63 book, that would be more enlightening. I know that I am repeating myself from other threads, but just because a Question (NFHS), Casebook (NFHS), or A.R. (NCAA) have been dropped from the latest rules book or casebook, does not mean that they are not longer applicable. These Questions, Casebook Plays, and A.R.'s are still are applicable. This logic also applies when a rule previously stated something was legal, and then the Rules Committee deleted the language that allowed something to be legal and made an editorial comment stating that the purpose of the deletion was to make what was previously legal now illegal.

[Bart Tyson]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

[i]

Let me address your second paragraph first. If a player goes down in the paint with an injury, how do you handle stopping play? If a player's glasses comes off in the paint, wouldn't you use the same criteria to stop play as you would for an injury? Of course you would. Depending on the situation, you might sound your whistle immediately, or wait until team control is established.

Ok I think we are on the same page. Or let them play on b/c the players clear and the player who lost the glasses can pick them up, and if this is the situation then i would stop play so he could adjust his glasses.

but if you go to page 13 of the 2000-02 NFHS Basketball Handbook and go to the year 1963.

You lost me here. ?

Mark, I am a bit surprised about so many players wareing glasses where you officiate. Is it because there is a difference between lower level vs higher level, (i.e. HS/college vs HSJV on down), and/or during season vs off season?

[Mlancaster]

I say let 'em put the shoes on but don't let'em tie them!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bart Tyson

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Mark, I am a bit surprised about so many players wareing glasses where you officiate. Is it because there is a difference between lower level vs higher level, (i.e. HS/college vs HSJV on down), and/or during season vs off season?

Where did I lose you? Go to page 13 of the 2000-02 Edition of the NFHS's Basketball Handbook, and go to the paragraph for year 1963; this paragraph addresses you concerns in your posting that I was responding to about a rules reference.

And while I agree with you that college players do not wear glasses, you will find players at the high school level and below wearing glasses all of the time. Even in CYO' men's recreational leagues, and AAU and YBOA nationals, you will find players wearing glasses. Not everybody has perfect vision like basketball officials do.

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Where did I lose you? Go to page 13 of the 2000-02 Edition of the NFHS's Basketball Handbook,

I'm guessing you are not talking about one of the four books of the NFHS. ( 2001-02, rules,simplified and illustrated, Officials Manual, case). So it must be one of the larger sized book that comes in the packet. I will have to wait til i get home b/c I don't have it with me.

[/B]

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson

[/B]

It is that same size as the Rules, Casebook, Officials Manual, and S&I books. It is published every other year (the opposite year of when the Officials Manual is published).

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
I wouldn't stop play if a players eyeglasses or hearing aid was on the floor.

Howard (who is my PBOA assignor) -- Please don't give me Bart as a partner. I don't want to be held liable for the injuries resulting from above!

[mick]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Howard (who is my PBOA assignor) -- Please don't give me Bart as a partner. I don't want to be held liable for the injuries resulting from above!

From what I've read over the years, eventhough I would stop play with glasses on the floor, I would work with Bart in a blink!
mick

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Howard (who is my PBOA assignor) -- Please don't give me Bart as a partner. I don't want to be held liable for the injuries resulting from above!

Ok, I'll give you the same question i gave Mark ( which i think we both ended up agreeing). Ball in air, rebounding, or shot, glasses fall to floor. Are you going to, Beep, pick up your glasses, no basket, AP for team possession?

[mick]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson

Ok, I'll give you the same question i gave Mark ( which i think we both ended up agreeing). Ball in air, rebounding, or shot, glasses fall to floor. Are you going to, Beep, pick up your glasses, no basket, AP for team possession?

Bart,
During the high activity of a live ball, I never saw the darn things fall.
mick

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by mick

Bart,
During the high activity of a live ball, I never saw the darn things fall.
mick

Thats funny, Maybe you need to ware you glasses!

[mick]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Maybe you need to ware you glasses!

Can't.
Fell off.
Coach stepped on 'em.
Couldn't see 'em.
(Was that a foul I heard?)

[jbduke]

Mark,

I just can't/won't resist this. I believe it was you who posted earlier that you don't remember your laces EVER coming untied during a game. You call 350 games a year, and you've been doing it for what, 20, 30 years? I know your schedule has gotten bigger over the years, but still...not once? Ever? I think I could super-glue the knots and still have them come untied once in 5,000 games.
Just curious as to what your secret is. Not even double knots work that well for me.

jb