Girl kicked off boys team
 

What do you think? Fair or not fair? Remember - the facility is a private gym.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/ore...210.xml&coll=7

Not sure about fair, but it seems stupid to me. They're within their rights, and if the parents who support the league want it that way....

Doesn't mean they're less than stupid, but....

These boys will be competing against women for jobs when they get older, they need to learn now it's okay to compete normally. Sounds like the parents are making excuses for their kids' inability to compete with her.

Fair or unfair? Who's to say, hopefully the valuable lesson she will learn at this young age is... life is not always fair!
This could be a huge motivating factor for her to succeed as well.

Remember the old fashion saying:
If you can't beat 'em, kick 'em out!

Mark - how come all these things happen in Oregon? Is it the water (rain)? Or is that you guys have a newspaper that goes out and covers it and its out here too and we just don't hear about it? ;)

Actually, this is a good observation on the state of news here. Having a background in the news business (former radio news director) and having grown up in and worked in a much larger market (Chicago), I have a perspective on the news industry here. The word I would use to describe it is "provincial". Since not much goes on (relative to larger markets) but the "natives" imagine Portland as a large market, the news media "inflates" stories that would either be "back page" or not reported at all in true large markets.

I'm not sure I got that point across so that you guys understand what I'm trying to convey, but I hope it comes across not as a put-down of my "adopted" state but just as an objective assessment of overly emphasized news coverage.

BTW - I don't think this is specific to Portland. I have witnessed it as I have visited many other "medium sized" markets.

Yup. You nailed PDX media. Not that ORD is much better.
Try smaller markets where fully 50% of the TV newscast is ripped straight from the morning paper. I've never found that class in the J-school catalogs: "Lazy reporting rip-offs and how to make your day easier."

Sensitive Issue
 

You know guys, I sense there might be a lot of people who are afraid to take this topic on.

So point blank, here is what I think: GIRLS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO PLAY WITH BOYS.

Where and when do we draw the line. 14-15-16 years old? based on skill level, who judges that? Based on the sport? Should they be allowed to play rugby or wrestle with the boys? Too many factors. So ok, we say let's use our common sense, c'mon now, we have all been out there and seen coaches, players, parents, and even us referees, sensibility is not part of our repertoire (as a general public that is).

If it gets rough, she fouls someone hard, he will be teased mercilessly, and/or then he returns the favor and she gets hurt, everyone will look at him like he is a horrible kid for fouling a girl. It's lose-lose. Not to mention everyone will get sued for allowing it to happen, and then we would be reading a different article. I'm sure this would not happen at the 12 year old level, but like I said, why go down that road and when/where do we draw the line.

The rule is there for a reason. Leave it be.

If there is a girl's team available she should be playing on that team. I do not know if they would allow a boy to play against the girls either if that situation was possible. Fair or not really should not be the issue. Would everyone be happy if the girls played against the boys all the time? And when she gets to high school I do not see her playing against the boys then.

It sounds like the outrage is misdirected.

Peace

Good insight here
 

Some outsider thoughts:


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...7132841AAkHaOV

It made CNN
 

It made CNN

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...boys.team.koin

I'm not sure where and when to draw the line either........I am asst coach of a 14/15 baseball team that has a female player as do most teams in the league. She's as good if not better than half the males in the league and there are absolutely no issues.

But, as JRut points out there are not enough females to makeup softball teams and this is their only option for now, and has been for many yrs in our area.

Without taking up any issues having to do with "political correctness", I think a line could be drawn at contact. If it's a contact sport (and there's plenty of contact in basketball), maybe you could make the case for separate teams. Baseball, which is a non-contact sport (despite some close plays at the plate) could be mixed, as could tennis, golf, bowling, swimming, track, etc.

Let's face it, would anyone out there support co-ed ice hockey? Come to think of it, there was this one girl in my high school who, er, never mind.

< >

Complex Issues ...
 

What if some 6 foot, 12 year old boys wanted to play in a girl's league?

In some parts of the country, high schools are having problems with boys playing on girls field hockey teams. Since most high schools don't field boys field hockey teams, the courts, probably using Title IX, are ruling in favor of these boys, and state field hockey championships are being won by teams with several, big, tall, strong, muscular, fast, testosterone fueled, teenage boys.

Here in Connecticut we have had girls playing high school football, and participating in high school (boys) wrestling. We are also having gender problems with high school swimming teams, the boys teams and girls teams swim in two different seasons, and some swimmers want to compete in both seasons to have a better chance at getting college scholarships.

As the father of three athletes, two daughters, one son, all having participated in both high school, and college sports, I love Title IX. But when this law forces some colleges to drop baseball (Providence), mens gymnastics, mens wrestling, or other mens sports so that equal funding is given to both men and women, I begin to wonder, especially after considering some of the points made in this thread.

Complex issue. I don't believe that there are any easy answers, at least I don't have any.

Without commenting on title IX, I added a major school from a BCS conference to your mix.

And that's wrong why?

Coincidence + Title IX? I don't buy it.

2000 ISU Football team wins first ever bowl game (Insight.com Bowl)
+
ISU Head FB Coach Dan McCarney named Big XII Coach of the Year Runner-Up (2000)
=McCarney's contract goes up to become commensurate with other Big XII head coaches


+


1999-2000 ISU Men's Basketball team wins first Conference Championship since 1945
+
FY 2001 Projected Expenditures for ISU Men's Basketball Program set to increase 42.6% from FY 2000
=ISU Head Men's Basketball Coarch Larry Eustachy becomes state of Iowa's highest-paid employee

=.....?


So again: Coincedence + Title IX, or what I've posited above?

(This is not an attack on you, Snaqs - I was just in the state at the same time and remember the course of events vividly as well.)

I sensed no attack. :)

No, it is not fair.

hense the titles Boys basketball and Girls basketball. Maybe they didn't have seperate facilities for women. What is a girl claimed to be touched inappropriately? To many "what if's"

It's a double standard. If girls can play boys sports then boys shold be able to play girls.

And at least one state (MA) forced the boys to wear skirts like the girls. Ridiculous.

New video interview with the girl
 

We run co-ed teams in our organization for grades 3-8 and there are no issues like this. Boys that have self-esteem issues because of being outclassed by a girl will have the same issues later in life when they are outclassed by other boys. The key is to raise the boys properly so that their self-esteem isn't based on beating girls, but on understanding their own talent and getting the most out of it.

It is fascinating that the self-esteem of poorly raised boys is considered more important than the self-esteem of the girl in question. The boys lose games 90-something to 20-something, and the girl scores 30. With the girl gone, they still lose 60-something to 20-something, but now they have self-esteem?

Sorry, not buying it. These boys need to take up a different sport, or get used to taking a beating.

Meanwhile the girl is taught that women are second-class citizens. I guess that's true in this country, but it's a shame she has to learn it so young.

Another option would be to move her up to play with the freshman or JV teams. I know this girl - she's incredibly talented and tall for her age. She towers over all the other 6th grade girls and boys. She is soft spoken and the sweetest kid you'll ever meet, and hates the attention this has caused. I blame it all on the coach. He could have done a better job of playing her on a team where she'd be challenged and blend in based on her skill level.

Why would you blame the coach? Why didn't the parents find her a team that was a better "fit" for her??

Because I also know the parents and the coach.

I blame Bush.

I blame Canada.


In all seriousness, I'm sure we all wish the girl the best. But the NBA? I just don't see it.

I think there's enough blame to go around. We can probably even include the Vatican's head of state.

Let the blamestorming begin :rolleyes:

No doubt! He was a nazi for pete's sake! :rolleyes:

I blame Obama, isn't he trying to kick out the girl? :D

And???? Isn't it the child the parent's responsibility?? If she needs better competition, the parents need to get her into a league that has better competition...

I'm not going to get into another pissing contest with you. I'm basing my opinion on knowing all the parties involved personally. You're entitled to your opinion as well, knowing none of the parties involved.

Huh?:confused:

What am I missing here? What does "knowing the parties" have to do with anybody's opinion on this? It doesn't make someone's "opinion" more valid.... or true.... than someone else's opinion.

An opinion is just and only that......an opinion. Differing "opinions" do not necessarily make a pissing contest.

Just my opinion....:)

Wow...we've been in a pissing contest before? Must not have been very impressive as I don't remeber it. But I don't need to know the parties involved to know that it's the parent's responsibility to take care of their child and her future.

Whether you know the parties has nothing to do with this issue. The girl is going to likely play on a girl's team when she gets older. Parents dictate what their kids ultimately do and they should have kind of seen this coming (if you ask me). I really do not see the big deal as to why she must play on this team in the first place. There are not many sports that allow both genders to play on the same teams in the first place. And even the positions I have read from people outside the sporting world is more evidence how absurd this issue has become. When I was a kid there was a girl playing on the boy's team because there was no girl's team. It was not a problem and she I believe she started. But I do not remember her as being a world beater.

Peace

The fact that I know the people involved gives a certain credence to my opinion. Whether you care to agree is up to you. Certainly all of you who don't know the people involved are basing your opinions on what you've read in a newspaper blurb. I would argue that knowing the people involved absolutely helps to understand the situation better.

The issue was that parents complained because a girl was playing on a boys team. The coach should have known it was against the league's policy to allow a girl to play on a boys team. Evidently, the coach was told on many occasions that it was against the league policy. The coach escalated the issue to the media. The victim is this poor girl who meant no harm - she doesn't want all this attention - she just wants to play basketball.

Ultimately, I simply don't care what everyone else thinks.

Smitty - since you are so close to the situation, do you think the parents would have complained if the girl was just an average player? Just asking.

I doubt it, because I've seen girls play on boys teams before, and this same girl has played with the boys for a while now. The only reason the league intervened was because some parents from one particular team complained.

I don't know why the parents chose not to move her up to a more competitive team like the freshman or JV teams. I do know the girl is only 11 (maybe 12) and emotionally and socially might not be ready to be around older girls. Or maybe she doesn't want to play with the older girls just yet. She is very softspoken and shy. She just happens to be very tall for her age and has exceptional skills. It runs in the family.

Smitty,

The only facts I care about are that the girl was not allowed to play on the boy's team anymore. I do not care about how good she is or what her parent think.

Peace

Then it's lucky for me you're not the only one here.

Or perhaps the fact that you know the people involved causes you to shift blame to the party that you like the least - in this case the coach. Ultimately, the parents are responsible for where, when, and for whom their daughter plays. They should have known the rules of the league she was playing in...they should have known that eventually she would run into a situation just like this because she was playing in a boy's league. They either chose to ignore those things or purposefully put their daughter in a position for this to happen. Either way, it's their responsibility.

Not to get into a pissing match or anything...:D

Let me throw this into the mix. Years ago, I negotiated an new insurance policy for our local rec league. It was part of some "national" policy for rec leagues so we saved a ton of money. I was told that one of the conditions was that there could be no co-ed teams. When this story came out, I checked with our agent and he said that was still the case. In fact, one of our rules is that if a team has fewer than 5 players to start a game, they can "recruit" another player in the gym who is registered with the program, plays at the same grade level and is of the same gender. This is for insurance purposes.

Apparently, The Hoop carries their own insurance policy since they previously let her play on a boys team, but I wonder if this is a factor for other facilities. Also, I know a lot of other rec leagues around here in other sports have co-ed teams at low grade levels. We never have done that, and no one has ever questioned us about it.