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-   -   That was a first (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/44426-first.html)

Back In The Saddle Thu May 15, 2008 11:44pm
That was a first
 
AAU varsity boys game last night. I call a foul on a kid for setting a screen with his feet about 32 feet apart and tripping the kid he was screening. Coach and fans don't like it. Obviously that's not the first; I'm getting to that part.

During half time we notice the coach reading something. Just before the second half, he brings over a rule book to discuss what I told him about the foul. I had erroneously told him that the screener's feet couldn't be wider than his hips (a complete brain fart, I don't know where that came from; i guess i AM a dimwit!). He just wanted to let me know he'd looked it up and it is shoulder's width. Didn't have any more of those screens the rest of the game.

Did I miss a memo? When did they teach coaches to read? :D

truerookie Thu May 15, 2008 11:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
AAU varsity boys game last night. I call a foul on a kid for setting a screen with his feet about 32 feet apart and tripping the kid he was screening. Coach and fans don't like it. Obviously that's not the first; I'm getting to that part.

During half time we notice the coach reading something. Just before the second half, he brings over a rule book to discuss what I told him about the foul. I had erroneously told him that the screener's feet couldn't be wider than his hips (a complete brain fart, I don't know where that came from; i guess i AM a dimwit!). He just wanted to let me know he'd looked it up and it is shoulder's width. Didn't have any more of those screens the rest of the game.

Did I miss a memo? When did they teach coaches to read? :D
Billy Packer Academy!:eek:

BEAREF Fri May 16, 2008 08:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
AAU varsity boys game last night. I call a foul on a kid for setting a screen with his feet about 32 feet apart and tripping the kid he was screening. Coach and fans don't like it. Obviously that's not the first; I'm getting to that part.......... :D

32 feet...that kid must have some long legs. :)

Back In The Saddle Fri May 16, 2008 08:55am
The ironic thing was that it was one of the shorter kids on the team. So to have his legs as wide as he did (maybe only 29 feet?), he was really working at it. His stance looked very exagerated, almost comical.

Adam Fri May 16, 2008 08:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
The ironic thing was that it was one of the shorter kids on the team. So to have his legs as wide as he did (maybe only 29 feet?), he was really working at it. His stance looked very exagerated, almost comical.
Like it had to have been taught?
His coach thought it was legal? Unreal.

Zoochy Fri May 16, 2008 11:05am
OK... He had a WIDE stance. Were his feet tapping?:eek:

btaylor64 Fri May 16, 2008 04:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
AAU varsity boys game last night. I call a foul on a kid for setting a screen with his feet about 32 feet apart and tripping the kid he was screening. Coach and fans don't like it. Obviously that's not the first; I'm getting to that part.

During half time we notice the coach reading something. Just before the second half, he brings over a rule book to discuss what I told him about the foul. I had erroneously told him that the screener's feet couldn't be wider than his hips (a complete brain fart, I don't know where that came from; i guess i AM a dimwit!). He just wanted to let me know he'd looked it up and it is shoulder's width. Didn't have any more of those screens the rest of the game.

Did I miss a memo? When did they teach coaches to read? :D
screw that guy! he's trying to show you up! calmly stick him! I would tell him that he is completely right (which he is) and stick him for disrespecting the official. I would make sure to tell him to not bring that rule book on the floor again! if we can't have them then they can't have them, on the sideline that is!

Nevadaref Fri May 16, 2008 04:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64
screw that guy! he's trying to show you up! calmly stick him! I would tell him that he is completely right (which he is) and stick him for disrespecting the official. I would make sure to tell him to not bring that rule book on the floor again! if we can't have them then they can't have them, on the sideline that is!
I disagree. The coach has every right to find out the proper rule interpretation. If the official on the court can't provide it for him, then why shouldn't he look it up in the book? Afterall, the summer is the time for learning and that applies to coaches too.

BITS misspoke and knows it. All that an official in his situation has to do is say, "Yep, coach that right. It is shoulders. I mistakenly said hips, but what he did was still illegal." Then move on with the game. Turning this into a technical foul situation is clearly making a bigger deal out of it than warranted.

Dan_ref Fri May 16, 2008 05:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
I disagree. The coach has every right to find out the proper rule interpretation. If the official on the court can't provide it for him, then why shouldn't he look it up in the book? Afterall, the summer is the time for learning and that applies to coaches too.

BITS misspoke and knows it. All that an official in his situation has to do is say, "Yep, coach that right. It is shoulders. I mistakenly said hips, but what he did was still illegal." Then move on with the game. Turning this into a technical foul situation is clearly making a bigger deal out of it than warranted.
At the risk of you taking this personally I'll respond. Hopefully you'll decide not to slit your wrist.

I disagree, sort of.

The baseball umpires have a great tradition of dumping any coach who even looks at a rule book during a game.

The best we can do is ignore him, which is what BITS should have done.

"Hey ref, it sez in this here rule book..."

"Sorry coach, I don't debate the rules."

Nevadaref Fri May 16, 2008 06:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
At the risk of you taking this personally I'll respond. Hopefully you'll decide not to slit your wrist.

I disagree, sort of.

The baseball umpires have a great tradition of dumping any coach who even looks at a rule book during a game.

The best we can do is ignore him, which is what BITS should have done.

"Hey ref, it sez in this here rule book..."

"Sorry coach, I don't debate the rules."
Well, Dan, it seems that some officials feel threatened by coaches consulting a rules book. Obviously, I'm not one of them.

I don't have a problem with your advice to ignore it, but I also don't have a problem with an official simply admitting that he was mistaken.

Back In The Saddle Fri May 16, 2008 11:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
I disagree. The coach has every right to find out the proper rule interpretation. If the official on the court can't provide it for him, then why shouldn't he look it up in the book? Afterall, the summer is the time for learning and that applies to coaches too.

BITS misspoke and knows it. All that an official in his situation has to do is say, "Yep, coach that right. It is shoulders. I mistakenly said hips, but what he did was still illegal." Then move on with the game. Turning this into a technical foul situation is clearly making a bigger deal out of it than warranted.
This was the approach I took. I figure it's a positive thing for the coach to have considered my explantion, and have taken the initiative to educate himself. At the end of the day the call was right, the coach learned something new, I now own another rule (the hard way), and he got to get the last word. Everybody wins ;)

26 Year Gap Sat May 17, 2008 07:01am
On a side note, that kid must be great at posting up with either a 29 or 32 ft spread. One pivot and he's by everybody.

Dan_ref Sat May 17, 2008 07:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Well, Dan, it seems that some officials feel threatened by coaches consulting a rules book. Obviously, I'm not one of them.
It's not about being threatened. Some of us actually make decisions based on something other than fear. Maybe you're not one of them either.

Nevadaref Sat May 17, 2008 03:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
It's not about being threatened. Some of us actually make decisions based on something other than fear. Maybe you're not one of them either.
That's just an ignorant comment.

Texas Aggie Sun May 18, 2008 07:49pm
Dan: give it up. Nevada's a 100% right.

For one thing, this isn't baseball. We don't stop the game to even discuss plays with coaches. They have to call time out. In baseball, they come out and often aren't sent back immediately as they probably should be. Different sports.


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