Switching from mens to womens
 

What are your thoughts on this?

I know a few guys who want to switch to women's from men's because they can move up quicker. I do men's college and I'm happy with where I am. I'm moving up and doing D2 right now with the possibility of getting picked up soon for mid-major D1 conferences.

But I know getting to the highest levels, BCS Conferences, takes LOTS of time and I'm really young. (26 years old)

However, I was told by a clinician who is a women's official that someone like me--minority, young, runs fast--would move up the ladder on the D1 women's side really quickly.

I've never been opposed to women's basketball. Hell, I've officiated 2 high school girls games in the last 3 years total but that's not by choice though. I know officials, some of them close friends, who always say that they'll never do womens and if they did, they'd feel like they failed at officiating. I mean sure, it's no men's college, but it's not that bad...I don't think? I mentioned this to a few other officiating friends and they told me to stop drinking and I'd be stupid to switch.

I'd still want to achieve my goal of officiating major D1 mens...but I realize that's most likely not going to happen for another 10-15 years.

Ehh, I'm just rambling now.

:D

If the objective is to work high level college ball at all costs, then that might be the right decision. If the objective is to be happy, then it might not be the right decision for you if you have worked very little girl's basketball. We have had this discussion many times and ultimately you have to look yourself in the mirror and be happy with your decision. There is nothing anyone can say to you here that will make you be happy with your decision either way. If it was I the choice is easy. I would not make the change. I changed from women's basketball to men's basketball. So I am clearly bias to which is better to work.

Peace

So essentially your ONLY reason to switch to calling NCAAW is because you think you would move into the "big-time" faster, is that correct???

Bwahahahahahahahaha...sorry, but that always makes me crack up. So here's the deal - the assignors and conference supervisors on the NCAAW side are NOT complete morons. They will watch you work at a camp, like (probably) what they see, and want to talk with you about working for them. After about 5 minutes, they will realize that you are just another one of the arrogant people who think NCAAW is "easier" than NCAAM and that you don't really want to work NCAAW, but think that doing it for a few years - at the highest level, of course - will pad your resume enough so that the NCAAM supervisors will want to snatch you right up. And then they will politely tell you to take a hike.

On the other hand, maybe some of the NCAAW supervisors will give you a shot and start giving you games. Won't take long for your partners to see where you are coming from, and then nobody will want to work with you.

Best case scenario is that you get hired, work some games, get along with everyone and do a good job...and then the NCAAM supervisors won't be interested because you work NCAAW games.

Unless you really want to work NCAAW ball, stay the hell away.

Then maybe clinicians shoudn't make statements like "that someone like me--minority, young, runs fast--would move up the ladder on the D1 women's side really quickly."

I was at a D3 conference camp last summer and a clinician asked me if I would be interested in working Women's ball to "get my foot in the door" and then maybe move over to the Men's side after a couple of seasons.

I know officials, some of them close friends, who always say that they'll never do womens and if they did, they'd feel like they failed at officiating.

Sad.

At least in my experience working Women's basketball does not endear yourself to Men's basketball. One many levels it might set you back because many I have come in contact with do not want women's officials working on the men's side. Now maybe there are people that have got away with it without being noticed, but mostly when they find out it seems to hurt them.

Also it was also in my experience that working women's ball is a lot easier to advance than men's ball. There was a female referee (who I showed a picture of awhile back) that moved into my area and got a full college schedule right off the bat. Granted she is a very good official, but I do not know a single men's official that did the same and had 20-30 college games.

Man, your thread title really threw me until I remembered this is a basketball site. :p

Two Good Reasons
 

Two Good reasons to do wome's ball:

1.) It pays the same.

2.) They smell better.

Ain't that the truth.

This is logic which cannot be refuted.

Are you guys talking about Jim Wome? :confused:

Patched things up, eh?

That is probably a very true statement. Young, minority officials have a very good shot at moving up quickly...but NOT young, minority officials who are only doing it so they can move over to the Men's side in a couple of seasons. I have seen plenty of the first example, and plenty of the second in my years...the first example do tend to move up fast and have very good careers. The second tend to be gone from D-I officiating in a couple of seasons. JMO, based on my observations.

I'd Rather Fight Than Switch ...
 

Sounds more like sucking up.....

Kiss, kiss..

Switching to women's ball as a way to move up more quickly on the men's side, reminds me of people who try to get down a gridlocked freeway faster by zipping up an exit ramp and speeding down the entrance ramp on the other side.

Juulie, I do that all the time. It works, especially on Hwy. 217.

Yea, but see, you know there are no cement barriers at the top of the ramp, no police car taking license numbers. This guy is gonna get to the top of the ramp, metaphorically speaking, and find who knows what? A spike strip, maybe? Or maybe there is no ramp there back onto the freeway at all?

Furthermore, what people think of you (all those saps sitting on the freeway) doesn't matter, but assignors and partners need to be on track with this guy, and a lot of people are saying this isn't gonna work for him.

That's funny...There's an exit near Hampton University in which people try this trick before entering the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel. But at the bottom of the ramp is a weigh station and a couple of mirrors which are used by the State Troopers to catch people using this tactic. Me, I get off one exit earlier and cut through the outskirts of the campus then go down the ramp. :D

I bet the people who get caught don't think it's that funny (even though it really is). :)

Honestly, I wasn't aware this is illegal. I do this occasionally, but not for this purpose. I usually do it when I find myself stuck in an exit-only lane but don't want to exit.

When I've tried it for speed purposes, it's always backfired.

Oh noes, I wouldn't go to the women's side to move up higher then switch to men's. That's not "ethical", IMO.

Oh no...go back and look at what I wrote. I said "not COMPLETE morons"! :D Changed the caps there to make my point...

And KTJ - glad to hear that you wouldn't do that. Your OP made it sound like that's what you were contemplating.

That comment reminded me of something a partner said to a fan once after a game. The guy weighed well over 300 pounds (I thought he was doing a Michelin Man impression) and was yelling at my partner the entire game. After it was over, he came over to yell some more. My partner told him he'd better leave because the truck scales were about to close and he'd miss his weigh-in.

Aaaahhhh, the good ole "Settlers Landing/HU/Avoid the HRBT backup" exit:D

While working for company A, what's wrong with taking a new job at company B so you can gain experience you think will advance your career in hopes that you can eventually get hired by company C? If you take out the "Womens" and "Mens" from the conversation, that's all this is.

I completely agree. And if officials have a problem with why someone works a level, then they have too much time on their hands. They need to worry about their job not what someone else is trying to do or not do.

Peace

I don't think that anyone who is only 26 has any business at the D1 level.

I'm confused. :confused:
Are you saying that they are travelling in the WRONG direction on these ramps? :eek:

Why should age be a factor? If you're good, you're good.

Talk to Bill Carollo who reffed Big Ten football at 28 and has done two Superbowls along with countless playoff games and is arguably one of the better NFL officials.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
That's funny...There's an exit near Hampton University in which people try this trick before entering the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel. But at the bottom of the ramp is a weigh station and a couple of mirrors which are used by the State Troopers to catch people using this tactic. Me, I get off one exit earlier and cut through the outskirts of the campus then go down the ramp. :D
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I wasn't aware that it was illegal and think it is probably a strech of some other law if the troopers are issuing citations. I knew it was illegal to cut through a parking lot to avoid a line at a traffic light but how can it be illegal to remain completely on public streets and take one route over another (obeying all traffic control devices and speeds along the way)?

There is one place in Portland that I do so often...It is an interchange that is very poorly designed. If traffic is at all backed up, it is much faster to leave the highway, go through 2 stop lights and the entry-ramp control signal, and re-enter on the other highway and through an overall longer distance....that's right...taking a longer path through effectively 3 stop lights is faster than the direct non-stop route.

Age is only a factor to the people that do the hiring. What someone thinks about an age limit on a web site does not mean anything.

Peace

You've just described the basic risks of life...no guarantees. You have to make choices without always knowing how they will come out. If you want the greatest rewards, sometimes you have to take chances.

Along the way, he may find that the interim journey he embarked on turns out to be a pretty good destination after all. He may spin out and crash because he was trying to get a Yugo to be capable to drive on the Autobahn.

Frankly, most of those assignors and most of the partners are not there for this guy's benefit. Most of them will only view him for what he can do for them. For a few, there is loyalty, but for most, loyalty is a forgotten concept. You've gotta do what you feel is right for you and play your cards to your benefit. I'm not talking about backstabbing others to move up or making promises you don't intend to keep. I'm all for treating others ethically and fairly. But at the same time, the contracts are year-to-year. They can chose to not bring you back for any reason at any time. Why should you, as an official count on anything more or feel committed to anything more. If you will either enjoy it or find other benefit in it, go for.

my understanding is that for a lot of assignors, loyalty to THEM isn't forgotten! Just the concept of their loyalty to the individual ref.

Therein lies the rub. As long as you are loyal to an assigner, you're likely to reap the benefits from that assigner. Right up to the point where the assigner doesn't want you any more. Or the assigner gets canned. Or somebody better than you comes along. Or, or, or. Then your loyalty is of no benefit.

WOW!!! Are you serious? And we know there's a certain age you think folks should have to retire, so what is your acceptable age range?

Since the other thread got cleaned up, here's where this subject was first broached.

Let's see. A guy at Northern Iowa University starts ref'n college intramurals when he is 18. At 22 he graduates and gets commissioned into the Army while jumping into HS officiating. In between deployments he continues to improve his officiating skills and decides to attend some college camps. At 25 he gets picked up in D2 & D3 conferences. At 26 he's a Captain in the Army with 3 deployments to Southwest Asia and he also gets picked up by a mid-major D1.

But according to Nevada, based strictly by age, this person doesn't have the necessary tools to officiate a D1 basketball game.