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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 01:20am
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the end of the Lakers/W's game

Go to the 7 minute mark. and 8 50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piHxZ...eature=related



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280324009
The video is wrong. maybe nba.com has it or they will update- from the first game.
I was watching it live. A similar play happened at the end of the NCAA game but I forget which one. they called a block on the d.
Missed call at the end of the game, clearly the call was a factor in the outcome of the game.-- (that's for my Sensei JR.)
Now even the best ref could miss that call and I got to hand it to Fisher because the cagey Vet made a great move to get the call. He grabbed Ellis first and fell down. Vlade would be proud. My problem with the play are the other two refs. If a call is wrong why can't one of them quickly huddle up and talk about it. They do it on out of bounds calls sometimes and a few times on fouls called.

"When the Warriors attempted to inbound the ball at midcourt, Delaney called an offensive foul on Ellis while he was tangled up with Fisher. Both players appeared to have their arms around each other, but the call infuriated the Warriors and all but handed the game to the Lakers, who got two clinching free throws from Bryant with 3.3 seconds to play."

Last edited by lpbreeze; Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:30pm.
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 02:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpbreeze
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280324009
The video is wrong. maybe nba.com has it or they will update- from the first game.
I was watching it live. A similar play happened at the end of the NCAA game but I forget which one. they called a block on the d.
Missed call at the end of the game, clearly the call was a factor in the outcome of the game.-- (that's for my Sensei JR.)
Now even the best ref could miss that call and I got to hand it to Fisher because the cagey Vet made a great move to get the call. He grabbed Ellis first and fell down. Vlade would be proud. My problem with the play are the other two refs. If a call is wrong why can't one of them quickly huddle up and talk about it. They do it on out of bounds calls sometimes and a few times on fouls called.

"When the Warriors attempted to inbound the ball at midcourt, Delaney called an offensive foul on Ellis while he was tangled up with Fisher. Both players appeared to have their arms around each other, but the call infuriated the Warriors and all but handed the game to the Lakers, who got two clinching free throws from Bryant with 3.3 seconds to play."
If you are using a play from an NBA game to make a point with JR, good luck to you.
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 07:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpbreeze
My problem with the play are the other two refs. If a call is wrong why can't one of them quickly huddle up and talk about it. They do it on out of bounds calls sometimes and a few times on fouls called.
If one official is responsible for seeing the whole play, and makes a judgment, that judgment is allowed to stand. If one official is only responsible for seeing part of the play, and something happens that another official is responsible for, then the officials get together.

As I read it, your play fits the first statement; your OOB example fits the second.
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 10:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpbreeze
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280324009
The video is wrong. maybe nba.com has it or they will update- from the first game.
I was watching it live. A similar play happened at the end of the NCAA game but I forget which one. they called a block on the d.
Missed call at the end of the game, clearly the call was a factor in the outcome of the game.-- (that's for my Sensei JR.)
Now even the best ref could miss that call and I got to hand it to Fisher because the cagey Vet made a great move to get the call. He grabbed Ellis first and fell down. Vlade would be proud. My problem with the play are the other two refs. If a call is wrong why can't one of them quickly huddle up and talk about it. They do it on out of bounds calls sometimes and a few times on fouls called.

"When the Warriors attempted to inbound the ball at midcourt, Delaney called an offensive foul on Ellis while he was tangled up with Fisher. Both players appeared to have their arms around each other, but the call infuriated the Warriors and all but handed the game to the Lakers, who got two clinching free throws from Bryant with 3.3 seconds to play."
It was a good call. Ellis went through Fisher before the grab happened.
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 12:09pm
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even Fisher says no-call:

"I thought it was going to be a no-call, just two guys fall down and the play goes on," Fisher said. "So when the whistle blew, it caught me off-guard as well. ... I don't think anybody was necessarily guilty of anything, but from the angle that Bob had, it looked [Ellis] had his hands to my chest, which he did. But like I said, I wasn't trying to fall down at all in that situation."


Out of the three officials, T has the best view of this play, no? L is certainly straightlined.
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 02:37pm
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that's what I thought. The T could have seen it from the start. I don't believe Fisher for a second
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 02:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpbreeze
that's what I thought. The T could have seen it from the start. I don't believe Fisher for a second
So we are now taking the words of players for rules knowledge or situations that need calling? That just further proves you are a fraud. I do not care what Fisher says, he was run over and something should be called. Fisher did not flop or fake being fouled in any way. You cannot just run over someone and expect nothing to be called.

I can see you will never learn.

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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 03:12pm
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does anyone know the college game I mentioned? It was at the end of the game and they called a block. I think it was the second round. My main point for bringing up the play was that I thought the other two refs could have talked about the call and possibly overturned it but that might not have been the case in this play as Jenkins mentioned. The trail had a good view of it though.
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 03:14pm
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There was no definitive angle to prove that there was a grab by Fisher before Ellis went through him. The only way that could have happened before the push was if Fisher grabbed with his right hand. Slot had a great look and called nothing and there is no camera angle that definitively shows a hold. No way IMO that this could have been a no call, especially at that point in the game on a set inbounds play.
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 03:18pm
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here is a video- warriors announcers. I would like to hear the Lakers guys. Go to the 7 minute mark. and the 8 50 mark. I think the trail official should have stepped in. He saw the play from the start. I'm not going to argue if it was an offensive or defensive foul. Perhaps a double foul. again Veteran move by Fisher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piHxZ...eature=related

Last edited by lpbreeze; Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:25pm.
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 03:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpbreeze
does anyone know the college game I mentioned? It was at the end of the game and they called a block. I think it was the second round. My main point for bringing up the play was that I thought the other two refs could have talked about the call and possibly overturned it but that might not have been the case in this play as Jenkins mentioned. The trail had a good view of it though.
WOW!!! Are you serious?
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 03:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpbreeze
My main point for bringing up the play was that I thought the other two refs could have talked about the call and possibly overturned it .
Could you explain the thought process behind overturning a partner's foul call?? How do you do that? Have you ever tried to do that? What rule basis did you use for doing that? I would seriously love to read your thinking on this...
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 03:55pm
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I've seen fouls overturned in an NBA game before. I saw a technical against Payton get rescinded because he would have been ejected. A young ref called it. You see blocks turn into charges or the other way around. I overturned a backcourt call my partner made because he made a mistake and we quickly settled it and the coaches were fine with it.
From the replay the refs were talking. I don't know what about and it would have been controversial to overturn it but the official who called the play did not see it from the start. There is another angle that was shown after the game from the baseline and from the start Fisher grabbed Ellis. crafty move
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 04:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpbreeze
You see blocks turn into charges or the other way around. I
That's becuase of the Restricted Area around the basket.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lpbreeze
I overturned a backcourt call my partner made because he made a mistake and we quickly settled it and the coaches were fine with it.
No....you gave your partner some pertinent and factual information (most likely a tip of the ball by a defender) and he took your information and reversed his own call.


How does one "overturn" a blocking call in a HS/college game? If I call a block you mean my partner can come over and give me information that would change my call? What factual information can a partner give to overturn a blocking call in college/HS ball?
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Old Tue Mar 25, 2008, 04:47pm
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so what was wrong with one of the other refs giving factual information and then the call possibly could have been changed. I've seen fouls changed this year that have nothing to do with the restricted area. From the information Delaney had he thought he was making the correct call and I do not blame him for making it. But he did not have the whole picture. The replay shows that. I simply feel his partners could have stepped in.
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