the end of the Lakers/W's game
 

Go to the 7 minute mark. and 8 50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piHxZ...eature=related



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280324009
The video is wrong. maybe nba.com has it or they will update- from the first game.
I was watching it live. A similar play happened at the end of the NCAA game but I forget which one. they called a block on the d.
Missed call at the end of the game, clearly the call was a factor in the outcome of the game.-- (that's for my Sensei JR.)
Now even the best ref could miss that call and I got to hand it to Fisher because the cagey Vet made a great move to get the call. He grabbed Ellis first and fell down. Vlade would be proud. My problem with the play are the other two refs. If a call is wrong why can't one of them quickly huddle up and talk about it. They do it on out of bounds calls sometimes and a few times on fouls called.

"When the Warriors attempted to inbound the ball at midcourt, Delaney called an offensive foul on Ellis while he was tangled up with Fisher. Both players appeared to have their arms around each other, but the call infuriated the Warriors and all but handed the game to the Lakers, who got two clinching free throws from Bryant with 3.3 seconds to play."

If you are using a play from an NBA game to make a point with JR, good luck to you.

If one official is responsible for seeing the whole play, and makes a judgment, that judgment is allowed to stand. If one official is only responsible for seeing part of the play, and something happens that another official is responsible for, then the officials get together.

As I read it, your play fits the first statement; your OOB example fits the second.

It was a good call. Ellis went through Fisher before the grab happened.

even Fisher says no-call:

"I thought it was going to be a no-call, just two guys fall down and the play goes on," Fisher said. "So when the whistle blew, it caught me off-guard as well. ... I don't think anybody was necessarily guilty of anything, but from the angle that Bob had, it looked [Ellis] had his hands to my chest, which he did. But like I said, I wasn't trying to fall down at all in that situation."


Out of the three officials, T has the best view of this play, no? L is certainly straightlined.

that's what I thought. The T could have seen it from the start. I don't believe Fisher for a second:rolleyes:

So we are now taking the words of players for rules knowledge or situations that need calling? That just further proves you are a fraud. I do not care what Fisher says, he was run over and something should be called. Fisher did not flop or fake being fouled in any way. You cannot just run over someone and expect nothing to be called.

I can see you will never learn. :rolleyes:

Peace

does anyone know the college game I mentioned? It was at the end of the game and they called a block. I think it was the second round. My main point for bringing up the play was that I thought the other two refs could have talked about the call and possibly overturned it but that might not have been the case in this play as Jenkins mentioned. The trail had a good view of it though.

There was no definitive angle to prove that there was a grab by Fisher before Ellis went through him. The only way that could have happened before the push was if Fisher grabbed with his right hand. Slot had a great look and called nothing and there is no camera angle that definitively shows a hold. No way IMO that this could have been a no call, especially at that point in the game on a set inbounds play.

here is a video- warriors announcers. I would like to hear the Lakers guys. Go to the 7 minute mark. and the 8 50 mark. I think the trail official should have stepped in. He saw the play from the start. I'm not going to argue if it was an offensive or defensive foul. Perhaps a double foul. again Veteran move by Fisher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piHxZ...eature=related

WOW!!! Are you serious?

Could you explain the thought process behind overturning a partner's foul call?? How do you do that? Have you ever tried to do that? What rule basis did you use for doing that? I would seriously love to read your thinking on this...

I've seen fouls overturned in an NBA game before. I saw a technical against Payton get rescinded because he would have been ejected. A young ref called it. You see blocks turn into charges or the other way around. I overturned a backcourt call my partner made because he made a mistake and we quickly settled it and the coaches were fine with it.
From the replay the refs were talking. I don't know what about and it would have been controversial to overturn it but the official who called the play did not see it from the start. There is another angle that was shown after the game from the baseline and from the start Fisher grabbed Ellis. crafty move

That's becuase of the Restricted Area around the basket.


No....you gave your partner some pertinent and factual information (most likely a tip of the ball by a defender) and he took your information and reversed his own call.


How does one "overturn" a blocking call in a HS/college game? If I call a block you mean my partner can come over and give me information that would change my call? What factual information can a partner give to overturn a blocking call in college/HS ball?

so what was wrong with one of the other refs giving factual information and then the call possibly could have been changed. I've seen fouls changed this year that have nothing to do with the restricted area. From the information Delaney had he thought he was making the correct call and I do not blame him for making it. But he did not have the whole picture. The replay shows that. I simply feel his partners could have stepped in.

I am absolutely sure that you haven't seen a block/charge changed if it wasn't one of these two scenarios:

1. It involved the restricted area under the basket.

2. There was a double-whistle and they got together before giving a preliminary.

Fouls are judgement calls that simply don't get "changed" like that.

You are saying that just because we have a different look that means that our information is "factual."

I am really starting to see why you are getting all the crap that you are. That is completely absurd. And if you do not know why, then that tells me all I need to know about your vast officiating knowledge.

Peace

I'm using the factual part as a response to BadNews post. my example of the backcourt call when I gave information to get the call changed.
The fact on this play is Delaney did not see the whole play. Just look at the replay and defend it. Disagree all you want but I would have loved to see the other refs step in. If the call stands then that is fine but just because someone calls the fouls doesn't mean it can't be changed even at the nba level .

I just can't wait for the time when you're using your "superior judgement" in a game to call a foul on a block, and the veteran official you're calling with catches you on the way to the table and says, "Hey, breeze, that looked really clean to me. I think we should waive that foul off and we'll go to the arrow."

Let me know how those conversations go.

Hey, try it out next year. Go change a few of your partner's foul calls.Don't forget to let us know how it turns out too.

You gotta admit the lad is consistent though.:D

Coaches must love him if he's consistent. It's "all they want" in officials. :D

NBA is a fraud
 

I refuse to watch that garbage. I always said it was rigged and then when it came out it was I had a big laugh. It should be for entertainment purposes only. The refs should wear rainbow wigs and a red rubber nose because the NBA is a CIRCUS!!!!!!!!

I actually think nba refs are great most of the time. I missed most of the Suns-Spurs series and all that hoopla. Unlike most fans the only time I thought the officials were favoring a team was during the Trailblazers-Lakers series about 6 years ago. Of course there was that incident during Kareem Abdul-Jabbar farewell game...
Kareem:- "Are you nuts? It's my farewell game."
Ref "Well then, let me be the first to say, 'Farewell!"

Show me an official that allows you to change a your block into a charge without a double whistle and i will show you a dumb @$$

Could Happen ...
 

After double whistle:

Partner: "I saw your blocking foul, but I had a travel before your foul"

Me: "Thanks for the information. Travel. Blue ball"

Did you ever think that it's possible the Trail didn't see the whole play? If you look at the play again, he's responsible for the 5 second count, plus there was a lot of screening action going on in the line of players at the beginning of the IB play. You would be hard pressed to find an official coming in to overrule another official, or even give another official information, if he/she didn't see the entire play -- especially in a foul/judgment call situation.

Also, there is no camera angle from Delaney's position -- it's more likely than not that he saw something on the "middle of the court side" that the camera angle and the trail couldn't see. Bob Delaney is not going to just make a call up, especially with 4 seconds left in an OT game.

Suppose that's true. It doesn't mean that trail was looking there (especially if the play was out of his area). It also doesn't mean L didn't see something T missed (if not on this play, then in general). So T trusts L to make the call. It's what is best for teh game overall, even if it results in a "missed call" this time. And, even if it is a missed call, so what? mistakes happen. Get over it.

Actually not a bad movie....I just hope Breeze knows its from a movie......

The angle that I saw, you do not see the entire play. I only saw the very end. Also the T if not mistaken was on the out of bounds play looking at the thrower and the Lead was looking at the players on the court. I tend to believe that the lead saw everything rather than part of the play. Now, if you do not like the call that is your issue. That does not mean the NBA thought it was a bad call or that the officials working the game did either. And I bet they are much more qualified than you are to evaluate the play.

The bottom line is you do not have the experience to evaluate, because you probably do not even know the mechanics involved. If you did, then it would not be a problem to see how the call was made. In my opinion something needed to be called and likely the official saw everything and you are reacting to the media that knows nothing.

Peace

There's also a push/hold on Davis that wasn't called - that was the first thing I saw when I saw the initial replay.

Looks like a good call, anyway, against Ellis, now that I've watched it again 5 times.

I see nothing that changes my mind on this call. It looked to me like the GS player pushed threw to get where he wanted to go. And it is clear little breeze does not know that the people looking at this play would be the Lead and the Center. The Trail has enough going on and would need help to see the entire play and get it right.

Peace

Absolutely...but that's not what lbbreeze is talking about and that's not overturning a call, it's a double whistle.

breeze is saying an official has a solo whistle and reports a block. breeze is saying that another official can come to the calling official and tell him that the call is wrong and to wave off the call.

lpbreeze is not an official. He's some fan who stumbled onto this website and is using 2nd-hand and overheard conversations and a lot of conjecture to attempt to make points.

That's because [B]lpbreeze[B] is a dork.:p

When did Breeze say this "Breeze is saying an official has a solo whistle and reports a block. breeze is saying that another official can come to the calling official and tell him that the call is wrong and to wave off the call."

jostling son jostling.
Breeze, from the start has been saying perhaps the other two refs can come in and give their information on the play and the outcome is the call could possibly be changed. The play was a puzzle and three refs could have worked to piece it together by what they say. The lead who called the foul DID not see the start and the middle only the end where Ellis fell on Fisher. So even though Fisher has a huge reputation as a flopper he might have gotten away with a foul and thus an OT game ends on a very questionable call. He was not injured either by the way. Perhaps for most of the game I wouldn't want to see these calls changed but in very crucial moments at the end of the game the refs could huddle. If this was a foul called in the Playoffs just imagine how much talk there would be about it. Offensive, defense, or non-call people can argue about it but I will stick to my point that the refs could discuss it and then change it if needed.
Audio--- http://youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

Just trying to help:

Yah and I was not just talking about blocking or charging calls although mentioned the restricted area would make it seem like it. I've seen younger refs get overruled this year.

No you haven't, at least not in the way you're describing it by anyone who knows what the hell they're doing.

If you really have seen an official "over-rule" another official on a foul call that the calling official had by himself, then you've seen someone violate one of the very basic rules of officiating.

So you had a conversation with all the officials and you know exactly what all the officials saw or did not see? Yeah right. :rolleyes:

So you want the rules to be changed because someone thinks this is critical time of the game? Interesting. :rolleyes:

Sure, I remember when Stoudemire was thrown out of playoff game last year with a rule that was very clear and black and white. Maybe the rules should have been changed to dismiss the actions of Stoudemire because it was a critical moment in the game or the series.


Audio--- http://youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU [/QUOTE]

More reason you have no credibility on this issue.

Peace

I wanna be there when someone tries to over-rule Delaney. That would be interesting.:)

BadNews has got the right take re: this clown. You're dealing with a fanboy, not an official.

Is that the policy on in your High School association?