I watched two playoff games this last week. In both games there was a timing incident at the end of the 4th period.
Please let me know how you "pros" would have handled it.

1st game: Team A has the ball and is down by 6pts. 42 seconds left in the game. A1 shoots the ball and makes a 2pt FG. Coach A screams for a time out. (Requests a time out) The umpire in this two man crew grants Coach A a time out before Team B had possesion of the ball. Coach A then tells the Umpire that 2 seconds ran off the clock after he was granted the time out. The umpire, who was lead at the time, went to the Referee and asked him if he had any knowledge of the clock running the additional two seconds. The Referee went to the table and called both coaches over to tell them he had no knowledge of the clock running down...Therefore, there would be no time put back on the clock.
At the completion of the time out, the Umpire was returning to the base line to administer the throw in to Team B when the Coach for Team A said, "Hey, Joe (Umpire) look...the Alternate over here is saying there was two seconds that ran off the clock!" The Umpire looked at the Alternate and sure enough he had two fingers up and shaking his head like there was two seconds that ran off. Whew! The Umpire then went to the Referee and told him "our alternate is saying there was two seconds that ran off..." The Referee, at this point had no choice but to put back some time on the clock.
The Referee decided to put back 1 second on the clock since there is a 1 second lag time. He sold it, and both coaches were happy. Team B went on to win easily.
My question: Since you have definite knowledge that 2 seconds ran off the clock, from the Alternate Official, wouldn't you put all the time back on...2 seconds...and not have to worry about the lag time?
Also: Should the Alternate official being voluntering information with out being asked? I think not.

2nd Sitch: End of game...Score tied...Team A shoots the ball with 2.3 seconds left, and makes a 2pt. FG. Team B trys frantically to call a time out after the basket amongst the noise. I saw the time on the clock when the basket was made...2.3 seconds. I saw the time when B1 was requesting a time out 1.9 seconds. I saw the Umpire raise his hand and blow the whistle at this time. I saw the clock run down to 0.0. I saw Team A run out on the court jumping and yelling that they were going to State. I watched as the Umpire and Referee got together at mid court amongst the celebration to decide what to do. After a brief conference the Referee came out waving his arms that the game was over.
My question: If the Referee saw there was 1.9 seconds on the clock when B1 was requesting a time out to the Umpire, could 1.9 seconds have been put on the clock? Or would .9 be put on for the 1 second lag time? Or is it OK in this situation to just call the game as was done?

Thanks for your input,
RD

2nd sitch: Sorry, was not "end of game" but rather TOWARD the end of the game. 2.3 seconds left when basket was made.

RD

No. 1 second is correct. you have to allow the timer 1 second to stop the clock. And, no, the alternate needs to keep his mouth shut unless he's asked. That's my opinion, since I've never had an alternate. :)

It doesn't matter when TO is requested. That has nothing to do with it. When the whistle is blown, the timer has one second to stop the clock. If the whistle wasn't blown until the clock was at 1 second, then the game is over. It makes never difference what the time was when the TO was requested.

in situation one the call was right in putting one second back on however someone needs to tell the altrneate to keep his mouth shut.

1st game) If the alt. is part of the crew and at the table then he should have been asked. Something does not make sense, I would not go to the table and not ask the Alt. So, i'm going to guess the alt. was not part of the table crew. He must have been there in case of injury. If the latter is true then his input means nothing. It would be the same as the coach saying time ran down.
2nd game) You said the ref. blew the whistle with 1.9sec left and the ref knew this. Well, they should have put .9sec back on the clock.

No, that's not what he said.
He didn't say the whistle was blown with 1.9 seconds left.
He said, " there was 1.9 seconds on the clock when B1 was requesting a time out."

Sorry, I wasn't very clear on weather the whistle was blown.
Actually, it looked like the umpire was blowing the whistle at the 1.9 second mark since he was looking at the player that was requesting the time out and had his hand in the air to stop the clock. I couldn't hear the whistle as it was very loud.

I later talked to the Referee about the situation and he said the Umpire came over to him and said when he looked at the clock after the request for a time out, and after he blew his whistle, it said 0.0 therefore, they called the game.
As I stated, I was in the stands and it looked like the umpire's hand came up with 1.9 seconds left on the clock...but the clock kept running. The Referee was looking at Coach B who was yelling for a travel violation on the made basket, so the Referee had no information about the clock.

As far as the Alternate Official: We have an Alternate for every playoff game in H.S. ball (District, Regional and State) the Alternate is there in case of injury but can also be asked questions about game situations if so desired.
The funny thing about this was the Alternate was not at the table as he had gotten up to get a head start for the locker room. This was 44 seconds before the half and he was standing beside the Coach's bench, that is how the Coach saw him make the 2 second gesture.

I still don't see why, if you have definite knowledge, you wouldn't put up the full time that was lost in both situations. Why do you have to subtract the "lag" time of 1 second if you know the correct time to put back on the clock?

RD

'Cause that's the rule - 8 minute quarters include lag time.

I think the main reason is that many high schools have clocks which don't display tenths of seconds. You might end up actually adding time to what was left.

I have never been in the alternate position, but I have to take exception to the postings that the alternate should keep is mouth shut.

The CCA Manual gives a very good description of the duties of an alternate official. One of the duties of the alternate official is to help in a situation such as the first one in the original posting. From the description of the play, I cannot tell of the officials did talk with the alternate or not (an educated guess is that they did not), and that the alternate waited too long to let the officials know what he knew.

You have to give the timer an opportunity to stop the clock. The NF allows one second. It's impossible to stop the clock the exact instance the official blows the horn. you should read the case book plays on this subkect to better understand it.

Mark, I agree the alt. is the 1st or 2nd person to ask. However, the alt. was not at the table. If he is not at the table then he is not an alt. for this situation. So, he should have zipped it.

That is what I said in my last paragraph, the alternate waited to long to involve himself in the discussion and when he did it was not in the best way possible. But he is the alternate whether he started for the locker room too soon, which he did in this case and they should dock him some for his game fee for that reason. The alternate has to stay focused and involved for the entire game.

I have to correct something here. The NFHS rules state that one second of lag time is allowed to get the clock stopped. NCAA rules state that no lag time is allowed to get the clock stopped. However, in any circumstance, if an official has definite knowledge of the amount of time that has run off (and that time is greater than one second), the official must put the full time back on. For example, if there are 1.9 seconds left (and the official has definite knowledge of this) and the timer allows time to run out, the official must put 1.9 back on the clock. In this instance, you do not give the timer any lag time.
--TGR

TGR is correct....the lag time only comes into play when an official count is being used. If you have definite knowledge about timing ie the basketball gods had you in a direct line with the time out requestor and the clock, you put that time back on

So, you're saying the following:
Whistle at 10.0 seconds (and ref sees this precisely with the whistle).
If the clock stops at 9.5 - let it be.
If the clock stops at 8.5 - set it to 10.0?

The one second lag time both the minimum to reset the clock and where the clock is set. If more than one second runs off the clock - you only put time back on until that one second mark. (In the above example, if the clock stopped at 8.5, it is set to 9.0 - not 10.0).

Take another look at 5.10.1D - notice that the clock is reset to four, not five, seconds.