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-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   UK GA - Goaltended FT (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/42745-uk-ga-goaltended-ft.html)

All_Heart Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:30am
The funny thing is if the player for Kentucky waited a split second longer for the ball to be above the cylinder then Gillispie's plan would have worked.

Or probably the best way for this play to work in the future for teams is to go stand under the basket and hold the net. This would be basket interference the instant that the ball hits the ring or enters the cylinder. And you don't have to worry about timing the block above the cylinder. If coaches are planing on doing this they should inform one of the officials of their plan so that they can confirm the penalty. In some games you might not have officials that know this rule. :(

I'm thinking that the first player might have been purposely entering the lane so that if the free throw is missed or the other player doesn't goal tend it then the UGA player would have to shot again. The same situation that happened a couple of weeks ago.

Maybe this will teach coaches to read the rule book before trying any crazy plays.:rolleyes:

Also did anyone notice that in the you tube video someone on the UGA bench starts forming the T sign with his hands before the officials call a technical. One of the announcers even says "That's a technical" before the officials signal a technical foul. I don't know if they were tipped off by something the officials did or if they knew the rule. (Probably the former :p)

blwall1416 Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Basket Interference:

1. Can't touch the ball if it's in the cylinder.
2. Can't touch the basket or ball if it's on or in the basket.
3. Can't touch the ball (even outside the cylinder) after reaching through the basket.
4. If rim is moved, it can't contact the ball before returning to its original position.

What about the situation that happened during the VT/UNC game. Spot throw-in on the sideline. Inbounder throws a lob that is caught & dunked. Looking at the replay, it looks as though the ball is in the cylinder when the player touches it & dunks. Is this legal or is this basket interference? I think it is legal as there is no shot attempt by the inbounder. Thoughts...?

bob jenkins Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blwall1416
What about the situation that happened during the VT/UNC game. Spot throw-in on the sideline. Inbounder throws a lob that is caught & dunked. Looking at the replay, it looks as though the ball is in the cylinder when the player touches it & dunks. Is this legal or is this basket interference? I think it is legal as there is no shot attempt by the inbounder. Thoughts...?
It needn't be a try to be BI. If the "alley-oop" is first touched in the cylinder, it's BI, even on a throw-in. The benefit of the doubt, though, goes to the offense on this play, so it won't be called unless it's obvious.

blwall1416 Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
It needn't be a try to be BI. If the "alley-oop" is first touched in the cylinder, it's BI, even on a throw-in. The benefit of the doubt, though, goes to the offense on this play, so it won't be called unless it's obvious.
Since the ball isn't live until it is touched...it would become live when the player first touched the ball...right? So, wouldn't that just equate to a dunk?

I would think a live ball vs. dead ball situation would cause this to be different than say a ball that was in play.

Bob, don't get me wrong...I'm not saying I don't agree with you...I'm just looking for a little more clarification in case this happens in one of my games.

Camron Rust Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blwall1416
Since the ball isn't live until it is touched...it would become live when the player first touched the ball...right? So, wouldn't that just equate to a dunk?

I would think a live ball vs. dead ball situation would cause this to be different than say a ball that was in play.

Bob, don't get me wrong...I'm not saying I don't agree with you...I'm just looking for a little more clarification in case this happens in one of my games.
The ball is live when the thrower is handed the ball by the ref. By the time the dunker touches the ball, its been live for at least 1-2 seconds (depending on how long the thrower was holding the ball).

blwall1416 Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:16am
Its the second play in this video. Tough to tell from this video, but Raycom sports showed the overhead angle & it looked like it was in the cylinder.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PIplP350ayk

blwall1416 Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
The ball is live when the thrower is handed the ball by the ref.
Is there a difference in this between high school & college rules?

Adam Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
The ball is live when the thrower is handed the ball by the ref.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blwall1416
Is there a difference in this between high school & college rules?
No difference. Otherwise you couldn't have a personal foul during a throwin.

Adam Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blwall1416
Its the second play in this video. Tough to tell from this video, but Raycom sports showed the overhead angle & it looked like it was in the cylinder.
As Bob noted, it's not normally called on the offense unless it's blatantly obvious. If you need an overhead cam to catch it, it's not likely to get called since no official in the world has that angle.

blwall1416 Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:35am
Gotcha. Thanks guys for all of your posts. I'm just trying to move up the officiating ladder, so anything I can learn....I'm all for.

By the way, I'm going to my first D3 camp this summer. ACC, Colonial, Big East, A-10, etc... officials will be there evaluating. Any advice from the veterans?

Scrapper1 Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blwall1416
By the way, I'm going to my first D3 camp this summer. ACC, Colonial, Big East, A-10, etc... officials will be there evaluating. Any advice from the veterans?
I'd start another thread for this topic, rather than try to run two topics in the same thread.

('Cuz that never happens. . . :rolleyes: )

bob jenkins Mon Mar 17, 2008 02:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blwall1416
Gotcha. Thanks guys for all of your posts. I'm just trying to move up the officiating ladder, so anything I can learn....I'm all for.

By the way, I'm going to my first D3 camp this summer. ACC, Colonial, Big East, A-10, etc... officials will be there evaluating. Any advice from the veterans?
Here's some advice: RTFM, especially before you repeat a question that's been answered or "seek additional clarification."

blwall1416 Mon Mar 17, 2008 02:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
Here's some advice: RTFM, especially before you repeat a question that's been answered or "seek additional clarification."
nm....every thing clear...my bad.

Thanks Snaqwells & Bob.

Adam Mon Mar 17, 2008 02:31pm
I think he may be referring to your question regarding dead ball and live ball. It's a pretty basic rule concept; one of the first things officials should learn. Something that should have been learned long before attempting to get hired by a college assigner.

I'm not Bob, but have been known to channel my inner Dan now and then.

vbzebra Mon Mar 17, 2008 02:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Mike, that would NOT be goaltending. To understand this, you have to understand the difference between goaltanding and basket interference.

In order to have GT, there must be a try for goal. For BI, it doesn't matter how the ball gets on the rim or in the cylinder. Could be a pass or a deflection. But for GT, it must be a try.

Goaltending:

1. Must be a try.
2. Must be on the way down.
3. Must be completely outside the cylinder.
4. Must be completely above the rim.
5. Must have a chance to go in.

Basket Interference:

1. Can't touch the ball if it's in the cylinder.
2. Can't touch the basket or ball if it's on or in the basket.
3. Can't touch the ball (even outside the cylinder) after reaching through the basket.
4. If rim is moved, it can't contact the ball before returning to its original position.

So in your situation, it would not be GT, because it is not outside the cylinder. It's basket interference, because of #1 -- touching a live ball in the imaginary cylinder.

By rule, GT a free throw in a technical foul; but committing basket interference during a free throw is NOT a technical foul.

Why?

Because it's possible to commit basket interference during a free throw, while making a legitimate basketball play. Just like in the situation you describe. But it's not possible to commit goaltending during a free throw, except by doing it on purpose (and in HS, by committing a lane violation first), which is considered unsportsmanlike.

Hope that helps.
As one who just finished his rookie officiating year, I loved this particular breakdown. Very descriptive and helpful. Would it be accurate to say that goaltending is "deliberate" and basket interferrence is "accidental"?


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