Interesting comment from an official

[lukealex]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Lower level games tend to get newer officials.
Or, maybe they were directed by the controling authority to call them quick due to previous issues. That said, it sounds like they just don't know the held-ball rule very well.

Very possible, I have been told this before with 5th and 6th graders in a rec league. Without that statement, this does sound like a quick held ball call.

[Goofyfor3]

As defined in the NFHS rule book -

Rule 4 Section 25 Articles 1 and 2:

Art. 1... Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness.

Art. 2... An opponent places his/her hand(s) on the ball and prevents an airborne player from throwing the ball or releasing it on a try.

In 1 it seems as if hands and opponents (both plural) illustrate the idea that there needs to be four total hands? How does one define undue roughness for middle schoolers?

[vbzebra]

Officiating younger levels (middle school in this case), I found that quick "jump ball" calls are better for the safety for the kids. In every game, there were numerous alt possessions from the held balls. If player A has 2 hands on ball, and player B has 2 hands on ball. Obvious held ball. If A has 2 hands and B has 1 hand on ball, I think it would still be a held ball. But be watchful for B trying to get his 2nd hand on the ball and end up reaching in and commiting a foul. Had that alot too.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by vbzebra

Officiating younger levels (middle school in this case), I found that quick "jump ball" calls are better for the safety for the kids. In every game, there were numerous alt possessions from the held balls. If player A has 2 hands on ball, and player B has 2 hands on ball. Obvious held ball. If A has 2 hands and B has 1 hand on ball, I think it would still be a held ball. But be watchful for B trying to get his 2nd hand on the ball and end up reaching in and commiting a foul. Had that alot too.

Here's how you can tell.

If, right as you're blowing the whistle, one of the players gains control of the ball, you've called it to quickly. This is a general "rule of thumb," not a hard-and-fast concept. However, it'll give you a guideline to judge your calls by, and will help you avoid calling this too quickly in the future.

[vbzebra]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's how you can tell.

If, right as you're blowing the whistle, one of the players gains control of the ball, you've called it to quickly. This is a general "rule of thumb," not a hard-and-fast concept. However, it'll give you a guideline to judge your calls by, and will help you avoid calling this too quickly in the future.

Interesting. Never thought of that way of looking at it...I'll keep that in mind.

[bigda65]

Snaq,

That is exactly how it happened 99% of the time - - by the time the official came in with the two thumbs up, one had the ball, and in some cases had already passed to a teammate.

[Adam]

That strikes me as a quick whistle indicative of newer officials who don't fully understand the rule.

If I had to guess, I'd guess they probably call a blocking foul on a defender with LGP because he's not "set." They probably call traveling for ugly plays, they probably don't understand "incidental contact," they have about 4 or 5 three-second calls per game, and they'll call "first to touch" violations after a player has been out of bounds.

[bigda65]

Snaq,

That cant be a guess !! you were at those games, had to be.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's how you can tell.

If, right as you're blowing the whistle, one of the players gains control of the ball, you've called it to quickly. This is a general "rule of thumb," not a hard-and-fast concept. However, it'll give you a guideline to judge your calls by, and will help you avoid calling this too quickly in the future.

Amen to that.......... quick whistle, very annoying..

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's how you can tell.

If, right as you're blowing the whistle, one of the players gains control of the ball, you've called it to quickly. This is a general "rule of thumb," not a hard-and-fast concept. However, it'll give you a guideline to judge your calls by, and will help you avoid calling this too quickly in the future.

Personally, I think that's a poor way to analyze it. I can hold my whistle for 3-4 seconds and one of th eplayers may still pull the ball away after I blow it.

I handle these situations a different way. If the players are standing, I'll give them additional time before I whistle it. I could care less whether someone pulls it away after I whistle. If they're on the ground, I get it very quickly, as there's a greater chance for injury, with someone diving in.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Goofyfor3

As defined in the NFHS rule book -

Rule 4 Section 25 Articles 1 and 2:

Art. 1... Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness.

Art. 2... An opponent places his/her hand(s) on the ball and prevents an airborne player from throwing the ball or releasing it on a try.

In 1 it seems as if hands and opponents (both plural) illustrate the idea that there needs to be four total hands? How does one define undue roughness for middle schoolers?

If there are opponents then you will have more than one hand. Nowhere does it say 4 hands. What if one player is super strong and is cuffing the ball with one hand while the other player is trying to wrestle it away with 2 hands?

Defining undue roughness? That comes with experience and is a judgement that needs to be made by the official(s) ref'n the play.