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-   -   T or Delay? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/42480-t-delay.html)

Coltdoggs Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:08pm

T or Delay?
 
A1 inbounding on sideline...B1 while trying to be a distraction and guard the inbounder accidentally reaches through and slaps his arm while he is holding the ball as A1's arms are coming forward to make an overhead pass....

Official called delay of game warning. I was working clock and was thinking this was a T and he kicked it...

BillyMac Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:11pm

Another Myth Bites The Dust ...
 
The defender may not break the imaginary plane during a throwin. If the defender breaks the imaginary plane during a throwin, the defender’s team will receive a team warning, or if the team has already been warned for one of the four delay situations, this action would result in a team technical foul. If the defender contacts the ball after breaking the imaginary plane, it is a player technical foul and a team warning will be recorded. If the defender fouls the inbounding player after breaking the imaginary plane, it is an intentional personal foul, and a team warning will be recorded.

Nevadaref Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs
A1 inbounding on sideline...B1 while trying to be a distraction and guard the inbounder accidentally reaches through and slaps his arm while he is holding the ball as A1's arms are coming forward to make an overhead pass....

Official called delay of game warning. I was working clock and was thinking this was a T and he kicked it...

You BOTH kicked it. ;) The correct call is an intentional PERSONAL foul.

Jurassic Referee Thu Mar 06, 2008 07:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
You BOTH kicked it. ;) The correct call is an intentional PERSONAL foul.

Yup, rule 9-2-10PENALTIES(4) for any heretics.

Coltdoggs Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
You BOTH kicked it. ;) The correct call is an intentional PERSONAL foul.

Well, that's why I hang out here! ;)

Thanks...

Nevadaref Thu Mar 06, 2008 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs
Well, that's why I hang out here! ;)

Thanks...

Look at the bright side. You know more today than you did yesterday! :)

Dan_ref Thu Mar 06, 2008 01:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Look at the bright side. You know more today than you did yesterday! :)

Assuming he didn't forget anything

socalreff Thu Mar 06, 2008 01:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
You BOTH kicked it. ;) The correct call is an intentional PERSONAL foul.

Not necessarily intentional. It could be a common foul...it all depends on which side of the boundary line the contact occurred. He did say the thrower in's arms were coming forward....

Nevadaref Thu Mar 06, 2008 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalreff
Not necessarily intentional. It could be a common foul...it all depends on which side of the boundary line the contact occurred. He did say the thrower in's arms were coming forward....

While the ruling that you express in your comment is correct, I believe that the OP removed any doubt about the facts of the situation in his post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs
A1 inbounding on sideline...B1 while trying to be a distraction and guard the inbounder accidentally reaches through and slaps his arm while he is holding the ball as A1's arms are coming forward to make an overhead pass....

Official called delay of game warning. I was working clock and was thinking this was a T and he kicked it...


socalreff Thu Mar 06, 2008 01:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
While the ruling that you express in your comment is correct, I believe that the OP removed any doubt about the facts of the situation in his post.

Okay. It all depends on the play. He didn't say he reached through or across the line. I was just throwing it out there.

Gimlet25id Thu Mar 06, 2008 02:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
You BOTH kicked it. ;) The correct call is an intentional PERSONAL foul.

Neva..I agree but thought I would throw this in. Would this change @ all with 5 seconds or less left in the game? Case Play 9.2.11 almost reads like you could call anything that interfered with the thrower, contact or not, a "T."

I would think that if I was the opposing coach I would rather it be called a "T" since the throw in would be @ the time line. Intentional foul would be the way to go here since it puts the ball back in play @ the spot of the foul & doesn't give the opposing team an court position advantage to steal. Just thought that there was a little ambiguity in the case play. Any thoughts?

IREFU2 Thu Mar 06, 2008 02:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs
A1 inbounding on sideline...B1 while trying to be a distraction and guard the inbounder accidentally reaches through and slaps his arm while he is holding the ball as A1's arms are coming forward to make an overhead pass....

Official called delay of game warning. I was working clock and was thinking this was a T and he kicked it...

From what I understand, that is an Intentional Foul.

Coltdoggs Thu Mar 06, 2008 02:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IREFU2
From what I understand, that is an Intentional Foul.

I didn't know...then I did, but I forgot ;)

Nevadaref Thu Mar 06, 2008 03:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id
Neva..I agree but thought I would throw this in. Would this change @ all with 5 seconds or less left in the game? Case Play 9.2.11 almost reads like you could call anything that interfered with the thrower, contact or not, a "T."

I would think that if I was the opposing coach I would rather it be called a "T" since the throw in would be @ the time line. Intentional foul would be the way to go here since it puts the ball back in play @ the spot of the foul & doesn't give the opposing team an court position advantage to steal. Just thought that there was a little ambiguity in the case play. Any thoughts?

The issue of the ensuing throw-in has been discussed before. I know that I posted about a discussion another local official and I had about how a team could push the opponent BACK to the division line by taking a T and that would hurt the offended team. We proposed that the offended team have the choice of retaining the original throw-in location or going to the division line for the throw-in following the FTs.

BTW I would call an intentional personal foul for this action no matter what time remains in the game. The only play in which I believe that the official has discretion to go with the T or ignore the offense is with a NONcontact breaking of the boundary plane with under five seconds remaining and the clock running. That's my understanding of the rules.


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