I know that it is a violation for players to dunk the ball or grab the rim during pre-game warm-ups, halftime, and between quarters. I had to access a JV team with a 'T' for that a few weeks ago.

Last night, the Varsity squad of this same school was playing. I was in the stands as a spectator. The team was out on the floor warming up. There was 25 minutes on the clock. The players who could, were all dunking the ball. The JV coach saw me and asked me why they can do it here but his team couldn't. The only answer I could give him was that the officials had not come out yet.

My question is...The officials come out at the 15:00 minute mark. Obviously the players know this. If the officials decided to come out early or came out to use the restroom or something and were off the court and saw a player dunk, would it be a violation. Do the officials have to be in their place on the court in order to have a violation?

Although not by the book, until I come on the court to stay, I haven't come on the court.

need to be on the court at LEAST 15 minutes, if your on before 15, give the T

2-2-2 The officials' jurisdiction, prior to the game, begins when they arrive on the floor. The official's arrival on the floor shall be at least 15 minutes before the scheduled starting time of the game.

If I come out and see it, I am going to penalize it. For one thing, Rev, if this was in Regional or sub-state in our state, the teams are not supposed to be out on the floor until 20 minutes before the game begins. IMO, the officials should have been out there too. Otherwise it is the game management's job to keep it from happening.

This was a sub-state game. I arrived about 30 min early. Both teams were out warming up. The officials came out at the 15:00 min mark. Of course, the dunking stopped when the official took their spot on the floor.

Rev:

This is a basketball forum. I find your proselytizing offensive. Do your preaching elsewhere.

Bob

IMO, this is one of the worst rules on the books. The kids dunk before we get out. Everyone knows this and we don't care, but when the officials step on the court, by dang, they had better stop. Why? Penalize them if the break a piece of equipment. Otherwise, why not let the fans see what they want to see?

To answer Rev Ref63's question, I would not penalize them until I was on the floor (officially). Last night I worked a state 4A playoff game and stood at the door to the court and watched both teams throw down some very spectacular dunks. Crowd loved it. I even heard some boos when they had to stop. No way I would have penalized them. Game management was all over the place and they didn't care either.

Wow bluezebra. Lighten up the guy is a Rev.

You actually find his signature offensive? You either agree or dissagree with his statement, but unless you have some serious unresolved issues it can hardly be concidered to be offensive.

You brought it up.
Mike

You're right Bob. This is a forum. A public forum. Unless they've repealed The 1st Amendment to the US Consititution, he certainly has the right to express himself on this or any other public forum. If you find it offensive, don't read it.

Zebra,
I find your criticism of rev's signature line offensive. Why no criticism when people write Peace or Whack em or any of the many other signature lines that people have? If you don't like what his signature line is saying then ignore it. Don't slam the man for what he believes.

And you're wrong BktBalRef. This is not a public forum. This is a private forum owned by a company. We are able to post at the pleasure of the owners. The 1st amendment doesn't apply here.

Personally, I find his signature offensive also. However, since it is allowed here and I want to participate also, I tolerate it. That's my choice. I'm sure there are people who don't like my signature (which, of course, would make them wrong ;) ), but if Brad allows it and they want to read my posts, then they have to put up with it. Frankly, if I owned this service, I wouldn't allow religious proselytizing of any kind.

When it gets to the point where I don't enjoy participating here any longer for whatever reason, I'll stop - which is why I no longer post on that "other" board.

Frankly - who cares?

I have disagreed with many things said on this forum, and been offended by a few. I don't believe in God - some people do, that's their perogative.

If RevRef hounds me, abuses me, threatens me or otherwise attacks me - I'll be offended, upset and I'll complain to the administrators. However if he wants to express an opinion I believe he is entitled to - whether that opinion be that God is great, Elvis is actually alive or there should be no possession on a technical foul is irrelevant.

So long as the majority of RevRef's comments are based (at least loosely) on basketball, what's the problem with him expressing an opinion in his signature (as most of us do)?

Lighten up people.

proselytize (pròs´e-lî-tìz´) verb
proselytized, proselytizing, proselytizes verb, intransitive
1.To induce someone to convert to one's own religious faith.
2.To induce someone to join one's own political party or to espouse one's doctrine.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. That certainly was not my motive. I have simply expressed an opinion. If you will look at the definition of what I have been accused of, you will see that the accusations are unfounded.

I hate to think that our society has sunk to such depths that the name of Jesus is offensive to anyone.

I apologize for having to post this non-basketball related reply. I think if you read my other posts, you will find that I keep my personal beliefs pretty much to myself. Why should I preach here on this forum? I preach three times a week to a live congregation. They allow me to take up an offering?

If anyone would like to discuss this with me, please e-mail me personally. This forum is not the place.

If you were at the door all suited up to go onto the court, guess what, you had taken jurisdiction. You should have charged a technical foul to every player that you saw dunk the ball. Dunking the ball during a dead ball is a safety issue. I think that you blew this one. And I would not care what game management thought. You saw it and did not penalize it.

No, I'm not wrong. I never said that this forum was publicly owned. It is a public forum in that anyone is welcome to post, there is no fee to post, and anyone is free to read. I don't believe RevRef has violated any of the forum rules. It is certainly not within BlueZebra's authority to tell him what he can and can't post. If he has a problem with a forum, he should contact a moderator, per the owner's policy.

Very, very different.
 

Zebra,
I find your criticism of rev's signature line offensive. Why no criticism when people write Peace or Whack em or any of the many other signature lines that people have? If you don't like what his signature line is saying then ignore it. Don't slam the man for what he believes. [/B][/QUOTE]

Why do you have to bring my signature into this. I think the offensiveness is quite different here. He is talking about a religous belief. "Peace" is just saying goodby. I think the too are quite different. I may not agree with the idea that the Rev's signature is offensive, but I do understand. Religion is a personal thing, and many people do not want to have beliefs pushed on them. What youw some of you say if someone said, "All peace to Allah." How many here would get offended or try to suggest something that is not there?

Free speech only has to do with the government and certain entities that are directly affected by the government. This forum might not be the place for that. Remember we do have people here of many religions and beliefs. But then again, I really do not see the big deal either. But Blueref has the right to find it objectionable. I believe in Christ too, but I do not think this is the place for that either.

But then again, I am just one person.

Peace :)

REV:

"proselytize (pròs´e-lî-tìz´) verb
proselytized, proselytizing, proselytizes verb, intransitive
1.To induce someone to convert to one's own religious faith.
2.To induce someone to join one's own political party or to espouse one's doctrine."

By telling us to accept Christ is proselytizing, no matter what you call it. I don't find Jesus' name offensive. What I do find offensive is having it shoved in my face in a sports forum. You want to invoke his name, do it on a religious setting.

And Mark:

You're so right about the First Amendment. The Constitution puts restrictions on the Government, not private entities.

Bob

Frankly, I am shocked and disappointed at this latest development in our community. I come home from watching a very good team play basketball and find you blasting RevRef, who happens to be a friend of mine, because of his signature line. I do not think that this is pros...ing, or whatever, I can't even spell it. He does not preach to me or anyone else unless asked to and this is not what he is doing by having this signature, THAT IS WHAT HE BELIEVES. Like it or not, deal with it. You wanna pick a fight with the Rev, pick it here, bud.

[Edited by devdog69 on Feb 28th, 2002 at 08:30 AM]

OK - what if his (or anyone else's) signature was "Your worst call? Trust Christ today."

How would you feel then? Offended? Would you not say something about it? I can't believe there wouldn't be lots of comments about how inappropriate and offensive it was to many people.

BTW - because of lack of punctuation, your post implies that RevRef is a friend of yours because of his signature line. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way and I just wanted to try to be fair and stop anyone else from making an issue of it just because of a minor error, which we all do sometimes. I'm not being sarcastic here - really - just trying to show some balance. I don't like to get involved in anything personal on this forum, but like others, I would like to stick to basketball and reserve religion for a different venue. That's all I meant.

No problem with that here. That's his choice, not mine. Whether I like it or not doesn't have anything to do with whether he can post it or not. If you find something here offensive, contact a moderator. It's their job to decide whether a post or remark violates the forum rules or not, not yours or mine.

I absolutely disagree with this statement. We were not on the court, we were in a hallway. If dunking is a safety issue, why is it allowed in games? Other safety items (hard objects on the body, chains, necklaces, earrings, etc.) are banned by rule, but dunking is not addressed.

I am sure that you would have T'd every player that dunked and started the game with 30 foul shots, but I am not you and, thank heavens, have enough common sense to do the right thing. While you believe I blew it, those who evalute our performance at the tournament thought otherwise--I am working the quarterfinals tonight.

BTW, I agree about the game management. I only mentioned it because someone else did.

get a life!!!

ur call, ditto.

Re: Very, very different.
 

Why do you have to bring my signature into this. I think the offensiveness is quite different here. He is talking about a religous belief. "Peace" is just saying goodby. I think the too are quite different. I may not agree with the idea that the Rev's signature is offensive, but I do understand. Religion is a personal thing, and many people do not want to have beliefs pushed on them. What youw some of you say if someone said, "All peace to Allah." How many here would get offended or try to suggest something that is not there?

Free speech only has to do with the government and certain entities that are directly affected by the government. This forum might not be the place for that. Remember we do have people here of many religions and beliefs. But then again, I really do not see the big deal either. But Blueref has the right to find it objectionable. I believe in Christ too, but I do not think this is the place for that either.

But then again, I am just one person.

Peace :) [/B][/QUOTE]

I only used it as an example. It was not intended to pick on you or single you out.

Aren't we, as officials, supposed to maintain some sort of composure?

Let's remember that officials come from all walks of life with different backgrounds, jobs, families, etc. This is a place that we can all come together to talk about sports officiating, regardless of other differences that we might have.

Someone's signature line is simply a personal expression. In this case, the person is a reverand, so it is apt that his sig line is religious related.

Posts unrelated to officiating are not allowed here. That is, if someone were to post something politial, religious, etc. it would be deleted, regardless of whether I (or anyone else at Officiating.com) agreed with it.

The only reason that I have not deleted the off-topic posts on this thread is that I didn't see it until we had already reached two pages (read: too much trouble :) ). So, instead, I am simply going to close the thread so that we can get back to the discussion of officiating.

Thanks,
Brad