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-   -   But the ball never passed halfcourt! (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/42345-but-ball-never-passed-halfcourt.html)

Rita C Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:22pm

But the ball never passed halfcourt!
 
Blue vs. White.

I'm L in White's frontcourt when Blue takes the ball. T takes off with some of the players to Blues frontcourt. Blue passes the ball forward. B1 jumps from frontcourt, grabs the pass in air and lands in their backcourt. I blow my whistle and signal over and back.

Coach yells, "The ball never got past the half court line! How can that be over and back?"

First time I had actually made that call. When the coach doubted it, I checked with my partner to make sure I had it right. He was smiling. "No, that was perfect, Rita."

That's where reading casebook and boards like this help. You can recognize violations you haven't actually seen before because they've been made real already in your head.

Rita

mick Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:31pm

Good call, Rita.

rainmaker Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rita C
That's where reading casebook and boards like this help. You can recognize violations you haven't actually seen before because they've been made real already in your head.

Yup. no need to keep re-inventing the wheel!

lpbreeze Sat Mar 01, 2008 02:23am

so I don't need to make a new post on backcourt which there have been many.
1.OK so it is backcourt on a pass right? ball deflected by defense, b2. Ball then touched by a1 and rolls into backcourt and a2 gets it. Violation
2.Not a backcourt on a shot attempt?- Ball goes off the rim, hits off offensive player and goes into backcourt. A2 gets ball, violation?
3. If it is a rebound, A1 does a controlled tap to a guard who misses it but gets the ball in the backcourt would that then be a violation?
4.If it is a shot attempt and the ball is rejected and hits A1 and then into backcourt I assume it is not a violation because control has ended but I wanted to check.

tjones1 Sat Mar 01, 2008 02:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpbreeze
so I don't need to make a new post on backcourt which there have been many.
1.OK so it is backcourt on a pass right? ball deflected by defense, b2. Ball then touched by a1 and rolls into backcourt and a2 gets it. Violation
2.Not a backcourt on a shot attempt?- Ball goes off the rim, hits off offensive player and goes into backcourt. A2 gets ball, violation?
3. If it is a rebound, A1 does a controlled tap to a guard who misses it but gets the ball in the backcourt would that then be a violation?
4.If it is a shot attempt and the ball is rejected and hits A1 and then into backcourt I assume it is not a violation because control has ended but I wanted to check.

1. Correct
2. Incorrect - no violation.
3. Correct
4. Correct

Jurassic Referee Sat Mar 01, 2008 05:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1
3. Correct

Disagree. There's no player control on any kind of "tap", including a controlled tap. You're only directing the ball on a controlled tap. There's no violation if the ball goes in the backcourt because player control had never been established in the frontcourt.

Nevadaref Sat Mar 01, 2008 05:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Disagree. There's no player control on any kind of "tap", including a controlled tap. You're only directing the ball on a controlled tap. There's no violation if the ball goes in the backcourt because player control had never been established in the frontcourt.

Debateable.
If the official deems that the player had control of the ball, then it is a violation. Strictly a judgment call.

Jurassic Referee Sat Mar 01, 2008 06:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Debateable.
If the official deems that the player had control of the ball, then it is a violation. Strictly a judgment call.

I get it. If on the opening jump, if A1 taps the ball to a teammate, you're saying that you could call a violation.

Thanks for enlightening me.:)

I was using the commonly(I thought) understood meaning of a "controlled tap"....i.e. no actual player control but could still be deliberately directed to another player. Usually, the word "pass" is used if there is player control, even though a "pass" can be batted also. I guess you're right.....mileage could vary.

Congratulations on being such a cunning linguist.

mick Sat Mar 01, 2008 06:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Debateable.
If the official deems that the player had control of the ball, then it is a violation. Strictly a judgment call.

...And during this controlled tap, would the player be [in your judgement] holding or dribbling.

BillyMac Sat Mar 01, 2008 08:28am

Another Myth Bites The Dust ...
 
During a throwin, even under a teamís own basket, if the throwin is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; or after a missed field goal attempt or a missed foul shot attempt, if the ball is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; these are not a backcourt violations. In both cases team control, a player holding or dribbling the ball, has not yet been established.

During a throwin or jump ball, any player; or a defensive player, in making a steal; may legally jump from his or her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor, and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or the backcourt. These three situations are not backcourt violations.

Scrapper1 Sat Mar 01, 2008 08:38am

JMO, but "controlled tap" is an oxymoron.

If it's controlled, then it's not a tap.

If it's a tap, then it's not controlled.

You can bat the ball toward a particular person, but that doesn't designate "control" in any rules-sense.

BktBallRef Sat Mar 01, 2008 08:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Debateable.
If the official deems that the player had control of the ball, then it is a violation. Strictly a judgment call.

There's no such animal as a "controlled tap." A tap is an attempt to score a goal. There is no team control during a tap.

Team control begins when the ball is dribbled or held inbounds. If you judge the ball was held, then you simply has a pass that occurs when the ball is batted to the teammate.

Batting a ball without first holding it does NOT establish team control.

tjones1 Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1
3. <s>Correct</s>

Incorrect


My fault, no violation per 4-12-5.

Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but is re-established when a player secures control.


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