Double Multiple foul...?

[Terrapins Fan]

I was doing a game the other night and had a strange one happen.

As A1 is driving to the basket, my partner blows for a foul, I didn't hear his whistle when I blew my whistle on a foul, I had an intentional foul, he had a shooting foul. It happened so fast, that's why I missed his whistle.

A1 driving to the basket, partner calls foul on B1 at the same time I have a push from behind on B2. We come together to sort out the call, he says, "I got a foul on white 22", I say "22? I got a push from behind while A1 is in the air shooting on white 34."

I know it could have been a "T", but I came up with the intentional signal.

Thoughts?

[Adam]

Did they foul the same player? Which happened first? It's not a double, but it could either be a multiple or a false-multiple.
If they happened at the same time, go with them both.
If one happened first, go with that and ignore the other. If the 2nd can't be ignored, then it's a T.

[RockinRef]

If you clearly came out with the "Intentional" signal then you would have to go with the shooting foul then a "T" on the push.
Rule 10-3-8 states it is a "T" if the contact is "intentional or flagrant" when the ball is dead.
The ball became dead on the shooting foul.
Shoot 2 for the first foul then shoot 2 for the "T" and ball at the division line.
Coach is not going to like it but, it is what happened and you just call it as you see it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RockinRef

If you clearly came out with the "Intentional" signal then you would have to go with the shooting foul then a "T" on the push.
Rule 10-3-8 states it is a "T" if the contact is "intentional or flagrant" when the ball is dead.
The ball became dead on the shooting foul.
Shoot 2 for the first foul then shoot 2 for the "T" and ball at the division line.
Coach is not going to like it but, it is what happened and you just call it as you see it.

Ah. I missed something. This wouldn't be a dead ball foul. The ball doesn't become dead on a shot until the try is over, even if there is a foul before that. The push from behind can be an intentional personal foul, or nothing. Hard to ignore it, though, if you've already given the X.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RockinRef

If you clearly came out with the "Intentional" signal then you would have to go with the shooting foul then a "T" on the push.
Rule 10-3-8 states it is a "T" if the contact is "intentional or flagrant" when the ball is dead.
The ball became dead on the shooting foul.
Shoot 2 for the first foul then shoot 2 for the "T" and ball at the division line.
Coach is not going to like it but, it is what happened and you just call it as you see it.

oh?

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by RockinRef

If you clearly came out with the "Intentional" signal then you would have to go with the shooting foul then a "T" on the push.
Rule 10-3-8 states it is a "T" if the contact is "intentional or flagrant" when the ball is dead.
The ball became dead on the shooting foul.
Shoot 2 for the first foul then shoot 2 for the "T" and ball at the division line.
Coach is not going to like it but, it is what happened and you just call it as you see it.

This is very close to what we did. We put the ball in play at the base line for the intentional. I didn't think about it being an intentional "T". Good point.

Yeah, it was a close ball game, 2 or 3 points. A1 made all 4 FTs and they scored on the in bounds. Game pretty much over. It was about 2 or 3 minutes left in the 4th Q. It was a play off game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

This is very close to what we did. We put the ball in play at the base line for the intentional. I didn't think about it being an intentional "T". Good point.

Yeah, it was a close ball game, 2 or 3 points. A1 made all 4 FTs and they scored on the in bounds. Game pretty much over. It was about 2 or 3 minutes left in the 4th Q. It was a play off game.

I'm gonna have to check my rule book, but I'm not sure he should have received 4 shots on a multiple foul.

What you have here is a regular multiple foul, complicated by the fact that one was inentional.

BTW, you were right by rule not to rule it a intentional technical foul. The ball wasn't dead yet regardless of the first foul due to the shot, therefore intentional personal was the correct call.

[tjones1]

Three free throws should have been awarded.

10 Penalty 6

Multiple Foul

a. One free throw for each foul:
(1) No try involved
(2)Successful or unsuccessful two-point try or tap
(3)Successful three-point try or tap

b. Two free throws for each foul:
(1) Intentional or flagrant foul
(2) Unsuccessful three-point try or tap
Plus ball for throw-in if intentional or flagrant

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Did they foul the same player? Which happened first? It's not a double, but it could either be a multiple or a false-multiple.
If they happened at the same time, go with them both.
If one happened first, go with that and ignore the other. If the 2nd can't be ignored, then it's a T.

Yes, they fouled the same player. I did not see my partners foul, but clearly B2's foul was intentional. If I were going to guess, I would say my partner called his foul about 1/2 a sec. or so before mine.

[JugglingReferee]

When intentional fouls are concerned, I got no problem with going with a multiple foul. Call 'em both.