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-   -   Wild End (Timing issue). (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/42254-wild-end-timing-issue.html)

hbioteach Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:11pm

Wild End (Timing issue).
 
Team A(home team) up by 2 points 1.3 on clock (4th quarter). A has a spot throw in at defensive baseline.

I'm the T and have the throw in. A1 on a football style throw has inbound slightly tipped by B1. I chop in. Clock doesn't start. I start a visable count while ball is in midair headed towards division line. I get to one as B2 catches ball. I come out with multiple whistles waving off any shot as B2 is shooting a half court shot that goes in. Also signal tip after whistle. My whistle is before release.

Did I handle this right?

B coach goes nuts as my partner and I leave the floor.

just another ref Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbioteach
Team A(home team) up by 2 points 1.3 on clock (4th quarter). A has a spot throw in at defensive baseline.

I'm the T and have the throw in. A1 on a football style throw has inbound slightly tipped by B1. I chop in. Clock doesn't start. I start a visable count while ball is in midair headed towards division line. I get to one as B2 catches ball. I come out with multiple whistles waving off any shot as B2 is shooting a half court shot that goes in. Also signal tip after whistle. My whistle is before release.

Did I handle this right?

B coach goes nuts as my partner and I leave the floor.

I missed something. Your count got to one. You blew the whistle. Are you somehow trying to incorporate
.3=no catch & shoot into this?

tjones1 Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:38pm

Ok...
 
You chop, have a 1 count, then player B2 catches the balls (steals) and shoots. After he catches it, you blow it dead and wave it off - right?

Edit

tjones1 Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref
Are you somehow trying to incorporate
.3=no catch & shoot into this?

JAR,

Yes, I believe this is where he's going.

hbioteach Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:42pm

Yes, To the description of play. The .3 is from the time after I chopped and recognized clock did not start and then began visable count.

crazy voyager Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:46pm

If the time didn't start and you are sure you had a good count, then I'd say yes. And furthermore, you should never ever let a team win when you know they didn't deserve it. B1 played good defence by tipping that ball and that should be rewarded. You did the right thing

fullor30 Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1
You chop, have a 1 count, then player B2 catches the balls (steels) and shoots. After he catches it, you blow it dead and wave it off - right?


Balls of steel? Wow!

tjones1 Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30
Balls of steel? Wow!

:D

Ha Ha... nice catch! ;) Corrected just for you!

bob jenkins Tue Feb 26, 2008 05:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbioteach
Team A(home team) up by 2 points 1.3 on clock (4th quarter). A has a spot throw in at defensive baseline.

I'm the T and have the throw in. A1 on a football style throw has inbound slightly tipped by B1. I chop in. Clock doesn't start. I start a visable count while ball is in midair headed towards division line. I get to one as B2 catches ball. I come out with multiple whistles waving off any shot as B2 is shooting a half court shot that goes in. Also signal tip after whistle. My whistle is before release.

Did I handle this right?

B coach goes nuts as my partner and I leave the floor.

You were right up until you blew the play dead. The "Can't catch and shoot at .3 or under" rule applies only if the clock is stopped with .3 seconds. Once it's running at more than .3, then the player is allowed to (try to) catch and shoot, even if the catch happens at .3

just another ref Tue Feb 26, 2008 05:45pm

If we're taking a vote, I don't think one can use a count to say we have reached .3 and disallow the shot. I think that using a count to have "definite knowledge" of anything less than a whole second is not realistic.

Adam Tue Feb 26, 2008 05:49pm

Count to 1.5 and blow it dead.

Or, if you don't want to do that, just go with a do-over. :D

Cajun Reff Tue Feb 26, 2008 05:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref
If we're taking a vote, I don't think one can use a count to say we have reached .3 and disallow the shot. I think that using a count to have "definite knowledge" of anything less than a whole second is not realistic.

good post and no kidding - we are HUMAN BEINGS, NOT MACHINES PEOPLE :D

tjones1 Tue Feb 26, 2008 06:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
You were right up until you blew the play dead. The "Can't catch and shoot at .3 or under" rule applies only if the clock is stopped with .3 seconds. Once it's running at more than .3, then the player is allowed to (try to) catch and shoot, even if the catch happens at .3

Agree.

5-2-5
When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw...

hbioteach Tue Feb 26, 2008 06:54pm

Once the ball was tipped, clock did not start. There was certainly a one second delay between when the ball was tipped and me starting a visable count.

Ball tipped.Chop in. Clock doesn't start.
Delay. Start visable count. Blow whistle.

I know that at least 1.3 elapsed between tip at baseline and catch and release of shot at halfcourt. NO DOUBTS.

Terrapins Fan Tue Feb 26, 2008 07:27pm

I'm betting the winning coach didn't complain.

Good job.

Back In The Saddle Tue Feb 26, 2008 08:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbioteach
Once the ball was tipped, clock did not start. There was certainly a one second delay between when the ball was tipped and me starting a visable count.

Ball tipped.Chop in. Clock doesn't start.
Delay. Start visable count. Blow whistle.

I know that at least 1.3 elapsed between tip at baseline and catch and release of shot at halfcourt. NO DOUBTS.

This is entirely a judgement call, and it sounds like you nailed it. And you had the fortitude to make the call. Well done, you!!!

MadCityRef Tue Feb 26, 2008 08:26pm

How much did you explain to the coach? A tip signal and fleeing (to his POV) might not be enough, IMO.

ca_rumperee Tue Feb 26, 2008 09:13pm

Good question. Vets?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCityRef
How much did you explain to the coach? A tip signal and fleeing (to his POV) might not be enough, IMO.

How long do you stay around here?

Sounds like a potential mad house.

What criteria would you use to decide whether an explanation was needed.

Or, is your thinking... "Here is my call. The game has ended. Here is a visual clue as to what happened.... WE ARE OUT OF HERE. Leave the visual confines and put the game in the books."

How about your partner(s) are you going to spend time explaining anything or slowing down to make sure you AS A TEAM get it right, or do you just say "this game is over, trust me, let's get out of here"

In the original post it sounds like there was 100% confidence with the call at the time, but now some second thoughts.

I'd be interested in some war stories about this moment... the moment where you have to decide about whether to linger and explain (to partners or to coaches) or just 'get out of Dodge!'

hbioteach Wed Feb 27, 2008 08:37am

No explination needed to coach. Ball clearly tipped, clock didn't start. Time should have expired during halfcourt throw in. Tip signal is enough. Game over.

As far as partner, only one clock in gym. As the lead the clock was behind him.


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