Tweet tweet tweet...
 

I have noticed in several NCAA games that the officials use several whistle blasts to help them SELL a call. I have been told this is not an accepted practice for high school refs so I use one strong sharp blast to call all fouls and violations. Has anyone else been told this by their senior partners, assignors, or evaluators? College refs (on TV) seem to do it quite a bit. Any thoughts? (I am not judging, it's just an observation):)

If you did a game with me, I would have more important things to worry about. I'm often amazed at how things like this are scrutinized so much at the high school level (college too) yet there are so many officials who should use their game fees to buy a clue! :D

Edit: that came out wrong. I'm not saying you would make me worry about other things. I'm saying that there are more important things to worry about than how many times someone blows a whistle. What annoys me is officials blowing the whistle to communicate everything like subs, fouls, subs, violations, subs, out of bounds and...subs. It kind of de-values the whistle when it is used for everything.

Subs?
 

My evaluator also wants a whistle for any and all subs. I tend to agree with tomegun. But...I guess I'll give him a whistle for subs, if that's what he wants.

This has little or nothing to do with college verse high school officiating. Maybe this is not acceptable at the high school level where you live, but not necessarily in every place. Now I was told early on not to do this, but I have not heard it addressed much since that time. I have seen mostly high school officials do this than anyone. I guess it just means everyone does not have the same perspective.

Peace

Let's All Sing Like The Birdies Sing ...
 

http://re3.yt-thm-a03.yimg.com/image/25/m6/3581524112

I officiated at a deaf school tournament yesterday. Sometimes I felt like a lung was going to come flying out of my Fox 40.

The procedure here is to always use a whistle for subs since that informs everyone something is happening before the ball comes in play. It also makes your partner aware of this so that (s)he doesn't start the play before the substitutaions are done.
When it comes to using several tweets I do it sometimes, but I try to do it sparingly. One good signal is usually enough, but it has happened that I do several tweets, mostly on offensive fouls or travelling violations where I can have a tweet for stop the clock and another for no points. But this probably isn't nessesary either, nobody cares though (except for Alan Richardson, he's the only one I've heard commenting on this).

Crazy Voyager, why isn't it good enough to have a loud horn go off to let everyone know there are subs or something is happening?

When I do some MS/Fresh/Rec level ball.....we could wait forever on that "loud horn" at some venues...... :) hence I too will then blow the whistle for subs.

Only time I consciously blow the whistle more than once is when there is a struggle/scrum/jump ball situation as I want everyone to stop wrestling before it gets MORE ugly!

That's one of the worst FIBA mechanics. A whistle to kill play, the horn from the table, another whistle for granting a time out or a substitution. Just annoying, especially in "quiet situations" such as when the official goes to report a foul and the table sounds the horn for a sub: why a whistle? There's the horn, one or more players ready to come in, what else can it be?

We should keep in mind that the whistle sound is displeasing. Any whistle after the first is much more displeasing. No tweet-tweet-tweet, ever.

I've fallen into the one whistle blast hit for foul, two for violations like travel / carry / double dribble etc.

One whistle for subs only if I am the traffic cop

One whistle putting ball in play if we've had a delay for some reason - subs taking longer, discussion at table or whatever.

Scrum on floor - jump ball - LOTS of whistles.

Speaking of whistles -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYgrhk7xoME

I'm in the same boat as Larks, although in a lower level game last year I did call a 4 "tweet" travel, mostly for my own amusement and my partners. I just couldn't stop myself from giving a couple extra.

Interesting.

Chuck, why don't you get rid of that old collar shirt already?

In 3-man I've definitely gone away from hitting my whistle for subs on free throws. I will hit the whistle on non-free throws if I'm the table-side New Lead and a horn hasn't gone off by the time I'm ready to pass the subs off to the "C". But on free throws I'm not hitting the whistle unless the Lead isn't paying attention or if it's the last free throw (made, of course) and the horn is slow.

In 2-man I will hit the whistle more often. Most times it's b/c the sub is having trouble locating an official to wave them in.

I think that was my partner a week ago.

Our state has a POE of whistling in subs. They feel you should respond to the whistle not the horn. The double whistle is not recommended.

Do you know the history behind your screen name?

Becuse the table is instructed not to sound the horn if there's an official coming up to report a foul. Then we use the whistle when beckoning the subs in.
Also becuse the horn isn't official, but when you blow your whistle and beckon them in they become players wich offect stuff like to whom a technical is charged (player insted of coach). But mostly becuse there is no horn when we go to report a foul, if there were I would agree with eg-italy that this is a terrible mechanic. But when there is no horn I like it

truerookie I sense someone here was controversial in the past with my oldschool screen name. I am new to the board this year and just trying to learn as much as I can to become the best official I can. I an not sure how long ago this individual was on and don't know why he is not here any longer. I use this name on other boards so I think I will keep it and people will understand it is someone new. Thanks

This one sentence proves that you are a different person than the one that defiled that screen name earlier. Welcome to the board.

Well, the horn is official (although in Italy they use whistles also at the table :(). It's the beckoning-in signal which turns a sub into a player, not the whistle.

Ciao

Thx, and welcome to the most knowledgable place to learn and grow. JMO.

What would you guys think of changing to a new mechanic of allowing the official who is administering the FT's or throw-in to wave in the subs? It would rarely if ever need a whistle and that person can be the determining factor as to whether the player is allowed to come in or not. Just a thought.

Would love your idea. NBA uses this philosophy alot.... Makes for less confusion on subs

How about because I normally tell my table that if I'm doing my job correctly, and checking the table at each dead ball, they shouldn't need to blow the horn for subs.

How about if you tell your table to give one horn during a dead ball to let everyone in the facility know you have a sub? Who said that it means you aren't doing your job if the table blows a horn for a sub? I notice the subs, but I think blowing my whistle continuously de-values it. Additionally, I have no problem verbalizing a sub at the table, along with the horn, so my partner's will know. I have even seen some officials use the whistle to communicate things will players like when they want a player to get a ball for them - basically substituting the whistle for their voice. If the ultimate goal is to get the subs into the game, we are talking about what occurs to make that happen. Using the whistle to accomplish this may or may not make an official's other whistles mean less. However, there is no way using the horn to bring subs in will have this effect.

Btaylor, nice try, but you aren't the only one who knows some pro rules. At least give some of us credit and come right out and recognize what you are suggesting is a NBA mechanic. BTW, it works (your suggestion), but I don't think we are talking about failure to recognize a sub.

I've heard several veteran officials mention to the table when they come in for their meeting that we DO want a horn on every sub. The reasoning is that by them sounding the horn they are indicating to us that the player is in the book correctly, has reported correctly, etc. -- basically that everything is good for that player to enter the game.

Makes sense to me... also, no harm in them blowing the horn for the sub -- that is the accepted way to indicate subs waiting at the table.

In our association, we've gone to using the whistle on subs when there IS going to be a FT. The reason why we do this is because if a substitute is beckoned onto the court to replace a player lined up in a lane space, the whistle "guarantees" that we're not going to have a lane violation in the exchange of players.

Ideally, all officials will always be on the same page and this wouldn't be necessary, but we don't always live in an ideal world. The new practice was put into place after a high-profile substitute-induced-lane-violation at an inopportune time....

19.3.4 The substitute shall remain outside the boundary line until the official gives the substitution signal and beckons him to enter the playing court.

4.1.3 During playing time, a team member is:
• A player when he is on the playing court and is entitled to play.
• A substitute when he is not on the playing court but he is entitled to play.

4.2.3 A substitute becomes a player and a player becomes a substitute when:
• The official beckons the substitute to enter the playing court.
• During a time-out or an interval of play, a substitute requests the substitution to the scorer.

Ther horn is never mentioned, a player becomes a player and is allowed to enter the court when the official beckons him/her in. Not when the horn sounds.

The horn is not official and a player is not allowed to enter at the horn. The horn is only a way for the scorer to communicate to the officials that a substitute is ready (or in some other way make contact with the officiating crew). It is not an official signal and I don't understand why you use it for subs in italy, it's imo unnessesary (unless the official doesn't recognise the sub, then the scorer should use it to notifiy the official).

I'm in Australia right now so my books are half a world away, but I believe whistling in subs was added to the NFHS manual this season.

I CAN'T STAND when a partner doesn't whistle in subs. Why? Because with a whistle I don't have to look to see if he/she has the subs or not and when there's no whistle, I do look.

I allow the horn to go and then a distinct whistle. Another sub comes up, another whistle.

I didn't say that a substitute can enter the court at the horn. Please, read my message. The horn is the official signal of the scorekeeper.

If you look and you aren't the one who is supposed to bring the subs in per the pregame, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is on you. I don't actually believe that someone blows a whistle and you don't look; maybe someone else would buy that, but I don't.

I think you are right and it was put into the NFHS manual. While I have softened my stance on the issue during pregame, I still ask the table to give us one horn per dead ball for subs - one horn because if a coach runs one sub to the table at a time all those subs might not get in. I guess some of my mentors are anal because I was taught to do things a certain way, using common sense, and be consistent about them.

Yes the horn is the official scoreer signal but it does not turn the sub into a player, the whistle does.
4.2.3 A substitute becomes a player and a player becomes a substitute when:
• The official beckons the substitute to enter the playing court.
That's what I didn't agree with

Lets say I come over to report a foul. "Black, 3-3, Hold, White underneath, SUBS..."

If I beckon while saying Subs, and the Horn sounds before I can grab my whistle to get the subs in... I don't see the point of a whistle.

My hand goes up, my partner ain't putting that ball in play till it goes down. The horn was another clue to him to wait, but he should be glancing at me before that ball goes back in anyway...

Most other situations... especially with a sloppy table, ball goes out, C or T looks at table and gives the whistle if necessary, and most likely, before the horn.

IAABO Mechanics
 

I just checked my IAABO (not NFHS) Mechanics Manual is it does not say to blow the whistle to beckon substitutes into the game. Something interesting that I did note. It states that a substitute shall not be beckoned it he, or she, reports just prior to the ball becoming alive. Interesting?

I don't look until there's NO whistle, then I look at my partner (with sub responsibility) to make sure he's noticed the sub and is beckoning.

Sorry if I was unclear.

I don't beckon in this situation until there's a horn and by then there's a whistle in my mouth and I'm whistling in the subs.

We're consistent. We whistle in EVERY sub, except those that report during timeouts and intermissions.

I do not even like to tell them that. I have found when the table uses the horn; they tend to use the horn too early when the sub is not even at the table (especially the home team). I would rather blow the whistle or bring the subs in on my own. Players need to know that the officials bring in the subs, not the horn or the table.

Peace

Whistle on subs is a required mechanic for NCAA-W. It gets to be confusing at times because, in my area, whistles for subs during high school games is frowned upon. Also, both high school and college in my area, anything more than a single blast of the whistle on anything is extremely discouraged.

For the areas I have worked, it is all about communication. I will communicate what I want/need from the table, I will communicate when subs come in to the coach and I will communicate when the subs can come in to the captains.

A horn and a whistle? Make perfect (non) sense.

Can someone on the board with 15+ years of experience tell me if this whistling in subs thing was around years ago? If not, can anyone tell me how it is better than an appropriate horn and me yelling, "Subs?" So far, it doesn't make sense to me. The posts concerning consistency are all well and good, but I don't believe every crew does this all the time which essentially makes it no diffferent than a table doing it correctly all the time - I don't know, maybe I live in the only place where this isn't done perfectly. When I blow my whistle I want it to mean something and I've seen officials blow their whistle for so many things, the value of the whistle goes down. I've seen a loose ball that was going to be inbounded bouncing away and an official blew his whistle to tell the player to get it for him instead of using his mouth. To me, that is ridiculous, but that is what happens when we start using the whistle too much. For those in favor of using the whistle, what do you do if subs come in before you "blow them in." :D Do you blow a whistle and shoo them back to the table? Do you tell them to go back to the table? Consistency would be blowing your whistle and motioning them back; we are substituting a whistle for time-tested use of words aren't we?

This isn't absolute for me because if I don't have a horn, I will blow the whistle.

Is it just me, or is this a lot of hand-wringing over a whistle?

I agree. Not everyone is going to agree because they come from so many different levels of acceptability for using the whistle.

Peace

I love it when someone chooses to say it is a lot of "hand-wringing" over something when they run out of valid points to make or do not want to answer direct questions.

Uh...hello...aren't we disecting almost everything associated with basketball officiating on the Internet? We blew right past a lot of hand-wringing concerning many things a long time ago.

I'm joining the debate a little late here, but I used to agree with tomegun. No need for whistles on subs most of the time.

Then I moved and came to an area where those working the table generally aren't as consistent and qualified as where I was. Now I whistle for subs. It prevents a lot of problems. I haven't found that it devalues my whistle. It does prevent my over-anxious partners from getting the ball in play before subbing is complete.

I happen to believe this is a lot of "hand-wringing" and not because I'm out of arguements. Just do what's appropriate for your area. Whistling is definitely appropriate here.

We could add this to the 'Good Officating' thread.
 

If one is coaching and the officials are not getting your subs in without prompting, I think your stock as an official goes down.

If you are checking for subs, recognizing their presence, working well as a team to get subs in, catching that 'late add' sub after a made free-throw, etc. you don't get in the way of the coach's efforts.

Thanks
 

That got more to the root of my question. Although, the "whistle for subs" dialog was helpful. That's what's great about this board. You can ask one question and you may get two or three answered. Thanks.

If they start in before the whistle I don't sweat it. They're in. When officials make a huuge deal of this, I just roll my eyes.

Well, I have over 20 years experience and IMO, this is the best system. The officials beckon the subs. The whistle gets the attention of the subs and the other officials. The horn is going to blow anyway, so I wait for it so my whistle isn't on top of the horn.

What's heard more easily? A quick blast of the whistle or you yelling "subs?" Why yell subs? We have a horn, right? Isn't that redundant?

It doesn't devalue the whistle. The whistle is a communicative device. It's not tweet, tweet, tweet, it's one quick tweet at the right time. Do you feel the whistle is devalued in college games, cause those guys are whistling those subs in.

And for those who are "by the book" guys, it's in the book now. How do you argue with that?

Rich, all men's officials don't whistle in subs (some may) so I'm assuming you are talking about women's officials.
I don't always yell "subs" if the horn goes off and there is someone at the table I think my partners know what is going on - especially if I'm holding my hand up. But, since you bring up a valid point I will evaluate whether I really need to say anything or not once the horn goes off. See, I'm always open to criticism because there might be a better way; I just don't think blowing my whistle after a horn is a better way. I would also like to point out, if the table is crappy I will have no choice but to blow my whistle because there would be no horn or a horn at the wrong time. I've worked one college game in the last two years where the R said we are going to blow our whistle for subs, one! This isn't an absolute for me, but rather the fact that if the table is giving us appropriate horns I will not use my whistle for subs.
Do you work with people who hear the horn and don't turn to look? I haven't worked with any of those types of officials yet.