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-   -   A first for me last night. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/42195-first-me-last-night.html)

canuckref Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeEater
In regards to your warning a player who goes out of bounds. Where do you get your interpretation from. We have been discussing this at length recently and the case plays you speak of refer to failing to follow an officials directions. As far as the warning is it not given when the player gains an advantage, such as avoiding a defender or does it deceptively? There is still some grey areas that fall under the judgement of the official on this call, IMO.

from 2006 FIBA casebook
38-5
In order to avoid a defensive player, A4 runs out of bounds and around the player before returning to the in-bounds area. The official warns A4 and coach A not to repeat the action. A4 again goes out of bounds to avoid a defensive player. Shall a technical foul be charged to A4?
(Answer) Yes. To permit a player to go out of bounds in this way would be to give that player an unfair advantage and because a warning has been given a technical foul shall be charged. (see also 38-7 a players momentum from jumping to gain control or pass the ball carries them out of bounds = no infraction)

SmokeEater Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckref
from 2006 FIBA casebook
38-5
In order to avoid a defensive player, A4 runs out of bounds and around the player before returning to the in-bounds area. The official warns A4 and coach A not to repeat the action. A4 again goes out of bounds to avoid a defensive player. Shall a technical foul be charged to A4?
(Answer) Yes. To permit a player to go out of bounds in this way would be to give that player an unfair advantage and because a warning has been given a technical foul shall be charged. (see also 38-7 a players momentum from jumping to gain control or pass the ball carries them out of bounds = no infraction)

Ok so now you can repeat the case book but I am looking to interpret the meaning. It has been discussed at great length as I said earlier and there is no "rule" or mention other than the case book situation where a player is not allowed to go OB and then return to the court. The exception as you have indicated by the case play is when they gain an advantage to avoid a defender. (This we agree on in totality). What I wonder is what about the kid who looses his positional awareness making a cut along the baseline then enters again on the other side of the key and receives a pass. No advantage really, no deception, no defender avoidance. I say play on, making this judgement. It is also the interpretation I received from my Provincial Interpreter.

Jurassic Referee Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar
Other than the generic violation signal? I see where CA originally also used the "kick" signal too. Is this what everyone else uses? Is there another preferred signal? Or, just go with "violation." Just curious as I've never called it.

Of a player fists the ball. Just make a fist and verbalize the violation. Or simply verbalize it. That'll let everybody know what you called. The "kick" signal is for a kick. Using the "kick"signal is not only inappropriate, it's stoopid imo.

Raymond Tue Feb 26, 2008 01:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Of a player fists the ball. Just make a fist and verbalize the violation. Or simply verbalize it. That'll let everybody know what you called. The "kick" signal is for a kick. Using the "kick"signal is not only inappropriate, it's stoopid imo.

There is no "fisting" mechanic? :eek:

Adam Tue Feb 26, 2008 01:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
There is no "fisting" mechanic? :eek:

Is this the appropriate time for a Hackensack joke?

Raymond Tue Feb 26, 2008 01:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Is this the appropriate time for a Hackensack joke?

Or Jenna Jameson?

Jurassic Referee Tue Feb 26, 2008 01:47pm

Oh, you guys....:rolleyes:

Raymond Tue Feb 26, 2008 01:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Oh, you guys....:rolleyes:

Hey, I've resisted going down that road for 2 days now. That's pretty good for me. :D

canuckref Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeEater
Ok so now you can repeat the case book but I am looking to interpret the meaning. It has been discussed at great length as I said earlier and there is no "rule" or mention other than the case book situation where a player is not allowed to go OB and then return to the court. The exception as you have indicated by the case play is when they gain an advantage to avoid a defender. (This we agree on in totality). What I wonder is what about the kid who looses his positional awareness making a cut along the baseline then enters again on the other side of the key and receives a pass. No advantage really, no deception, no defender avoidance. I say play on, making this judgement. It is also the interpretation I received from my Provincial Interpreter.

The reason I quote the case-play is for clarity. in an earlier post you seem to indicate there was no ruling, except for ignoring an officials warning. This case is clearly about running out of bounds to avoid a defender, not ignoring an official. The intent is to gain an advantage by running out of bounds, not to be disrespectful to an official...just wanted to make sure we were speaking about the same case.

In regards to the play you describe about the player "losing his positional awareness". I would blow this dead immediately if its an offensive player, then issue the warning. I do not want that player to receive a pass after he returns from out of bounds (running outside the baseline) then shoots, passes, dribbles and/or scores. I think its fair to say that anytime you run out of bounds in your frontcourt it could be interpreted to be avoiding the defense. I would like to hear the rationale/interpretation for permitting a player to run out of bounds during play. If you don't agree that the player should be warned to stay on the court, think what this leads to. The player realizes he has run out of bounds (even if he is just "lost") receives a pass and there is no whistle. What does he do next trip? i think you need to warn the player to avoid any confusion about the confines of the playing area. I am not aware of an interpretation here in Ontario about this situation.


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