Grade 4-8 both JV and Varsity.

Looking for some discussion on the difference and any personal thoughts on when one would be called as opposed to the other.

My observations are that most calls go against the defense. My feeling is that more offensive fouls are warranted based on simple definition. Rule 4-7

In addition ... 4-7-2(c), does this mean as a defensive player I must allow a path or I will (could) be called for a block? Something I was teaching was for a guard (on the press) to drive the offensive player to the side and the forward to trap at half court and draw the charge. I abandoned the play based on the blocking calls.

I think the main reason there are so many more block calls at the 4-8 level is that they often don't have a clue as to how to obtain a legal position on the floor. Also, they are usually afraid to get hurt and will move instead of taking the charge.

I coach 7-8 and it takes forever for them to finally understand the concept. What I've found is that by the end of the year, most of my 7-8 kids understand the concept and are drawing many more charging fouls.

I think the players get 95% of the concept.
The younger players are more apt to move that knee or hip because they didn't quite set up in the proper position.
And, let's face it, it takes real discipline to stand there to take that punishment, which never hurts as much as it looks like it will.
mick

I think that there are more blocking fouls called rather than charging fouls is because we officials are just doing an absolutely lousy job of officiating the defense. I have discussed the guarding/screening principles with more officials at the high school level and I am appalled at the number of officials that do not have a any idea what are the definitions of obtaining (NFHS)/establishing (NCAA/FIBA) a legal guarding position and maintaining that legal guarding position or screening (NFHS/NCAA/FIBA).

Just this past Thursday I officiated a girls' jr. H.S. DH with a fellow basketball officiating student of mine. After the games I was just furious with him. His mechanics were just terrible, we had way to many double whistles including a blarge. After the game we discussed the things that I saw. He started giving me pycho babble about how most of the guys he officiates with do not use the mechanics fundamentals as outlined in the NFHS Officials Handbook and did not understand why he had to also. In the blarge (which I took away from him, I had a charge; the dribbler made contact with defender right square in the middle of the defender's chest), he was out of position (he had not gone ball side as the lead) and I took the drive to the basket as the trail. When he described how he saw the play, I asked him what exactly did the defender do to not maintain a legal guarding position against the dribbler and he kept say that she got in the dribbler's way at the last second. We got out the rule book and looked at the definition of guarding and I asked him again why he wanted to call a charge when his own description of the play was a casebook description of charging and he said it just had to be a block because the defender got in the dribbler's way at the last second. At that point I gave up.

We have got to start officiating the defense and start calling more charges.

Mark T.,
I agree.
In the past month I have had 5 partners call blocks on a defender that left his feet going dead nuts straight with absolutely no motion toward the shooter. Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!
mick

I wonder what the mechanics manual says about taking the call away from a fellow official in the unfortunate incident that a "blarge" is called. I guess it's ok, since it's you Mark T and not some other ordinary official. Believe me, I hear what you are saying on the charges not being called, I wholeheartedly agree. However, two wrongs don't make a right, and this is no way to show him proper procedure. Why did you make a signal on a double whistle without getting with your partner to see what he had?

Mark - it's not often that I say this - but I concur 100%.

I think the main reason so few officials call charges is that they are scared. It is much easier to sell a block, and since the majority of playres, coaches and fans dpn't understand what constitutes legal guarding position, the block is the easy way out.

Too often the only charges I see called are the ones where the offense lines up the D from half way down the court. Personally I'd like to see more officals calling illegal screens (especially by post players). But that's a whole different topic.

Good stuff, thanks ... it's makes sense now. Let me see if I can answer the second part.

The rules states "If there is less than 3 feet of space, the dribbler has the greater responsibility for the contact".

The answer, based on the feedback here is, most probably the D would get the call.

Bottom line is a player (and coach) must be able to adjust their style according to the way the game is being called. I can live with that and actually have been teaching it. Contact under the boards is another one that we adjust to.

Hear, hear!!

I'm definately from the school that most illegal blarge contact is a PC foul.

I've been told by supervisors, however, that:
(1) If the feet are moving at all, it's a block.
(2) If the defender is in the air, it's a block.
(3) You get the picture . . .

AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!

I think you are saying that the dribbler would be at fault if he tries to split two defenders; if that is the case, I agree, the dribbler is at fault and should be called for a foul (if he displaces the defenders).

Mark,

When I played, I used to get called for jumping straight up - arms up straight, and getting pinned for the block - usually followed immediatel by a tech and/or ejection. I still hear supervisors saying that the three things requried to take a charge are:
1. feet (on floor)
2. front (facing the offense)
3. first (has position before offense gets there)

Really, 3. is the only one that is true - it pi$$es me off no end.

coach mb,
The defenders should not get called as long as they are legal, even if the dribbler trips on a leg.
If one, or both, make a swipe at the ball while the dribbler's going between them, a defender will probably catch a foul.
mick

To Mark and Oz, I understand where you are coming from. When I hear assigners tell officials that kind of nonsense it just makes my blood boil and I usually chop the assigner off at the legs if I get the chance.

Read this one carefully. It doesn't say that the defenders must leave a path. It says that if they haven't left a path, the dribbler should try to go around, instead of through. The defenders are entitled to take up space, and as long as they get there first, the dribbler is responsible for contact.

coach mb
 

Coach mb,
I coach a lot of 4th thru 8th grade ball. In my league the officiating definately, strongly favors the offense and often calls blocks on textbook charges. All the other coaches know this and also know which officials favor the offense more. They coach to this. I think it's a problem. I made the choice a long time ago to coach to the rules and not the league or officials. I'm driven toward player development in this age group, and not simply winning every game. It costs me games but its the right thing, for me to do, and for the players, IMHO. I want it to change and the best way I can influence the change is to coach to the rules and "Howl" a bit on the call.
EG