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-   -   NBA blarge (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/42073-nba-blarge.html)

Nevadaref Thu Feb 21, 2008 05:46am

NBA blarge
 
SportsCenter just showed that the refs had a blarge in the Celtics/Warriors game.
They apparently went with a block as 2 FTs were awarded.

I don't know the NBA rule.

Jurassic Referee Thu Feb 21, 2008 06:39am

NBA rule 4-19-3...<i>"When officials make conflicting calls in a block/charge situation, the foul shall always be charged to the player that has the lower <b>STAR</b> rating."</i>

It's true, it's true.......

Nevadaref Thu Feb 21, 2008 07:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
NBA rule 4-19-3..."When officials make conflicting calls in a block/charge situation, the foul shall always be charged to the player that has the lower STAR rating."

It's true, it's true.......

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/roflmao.gif

Raymond Thu Feb 21, 2008 08:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
NBA rule 4-19-3...<i>"When officials make conflicting calls in a block/charge situation, the foul shall always be charged to the player that has the lower <b>STAR</b> rating."</i>

It's true, it's true.......

Let's see? Paul Pierce shot the free throws. Al Harrington pick up a blocking foul. Maybe you're on to something? ;)

BTW, the collision happened right in front of the basket but outside the "block/charge" arc (or whatever they call it). Lead had a Charge, C came in with a block.

Jurassic Referee Thu Feb 21, 2008 08:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
Let's see? Paul Pierce shot the free throws. Al Harrington pick up a blocking foul. Maybe you're on to something? ;)

BTW, the collision happened right in front of the basket but outside the "block/charge" arc (or whatever they call it). Lead had a Charge, C came in with a block.

NBA rule 4-19-3.AR1--<i>If both players are stars, i.e are rated in the top 10% of all active players by ESPN, then the player with the lesser number of fouls in that game will be charged with the foul."</i>

It's true, it's true.....

grunewar Thu Feb 21, 2008 08:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
NBA rule 4-19-3...<i>"When officials make conflicting calls in a block/charge situation, the foul shall always be charged to the player that has the lower <b>STAR</b> rating."</i>

It's true, it's true.......

Good one!! Truer words have probably never been posted to this forum...... :D

Raymond Thu Feb 21, 2008 09:16am

My original reaction when I saw the hilights was "Charge" and a great call by the Lead.

Scrapper1 Thu Feb 21, 2008 09:17am

Rule 12-B, Section VI:

f. If a double foul occurs as a result of a difference in opinion by the officials, no points can be scored and play shall resume with a jump ball at the center circle between any two opponents in the game at that time. No substitute may participate in the jump ball.

All_Heart Thu Feb 21, 2008 09:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
My original reaction when I saw the hilights was "Charge" and a great call by the Lead.

It was a block because Harrington's right heel is on the restricted circle's line. If this was a high school or college game then it would be a Player Control. The Lead came out with the signal before the C but the C had a good look at his right heel and signaled a block even though his partner was calling a PC. This was a good job by the C to get the play right.

I can't imagine having to referee a play like that and also having to look at his feet to see if he is on the line. :eek:

JugglingReferee Thu Feb 21, 2008 09:57am

Anyone find a YouTube link?

All_Heart Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
Anyone find a YouTube link?

You can see it on ESPN - link

Scrapper1 Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:34am

Definitely was a block, but by rule, they administered it incorrectly.

btaylor64 Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:08am

great call by Mike Callahan. Defenders Right heel was in the restricted area. This is not a blarge. If an official is ruling on a play just on the basis that a block/charge is involving the restricted area and the restricted area alone the other officials may come to the official who made the call and give extra information. For example, if Lead has an offensive foul and it WAS an RA play, and the slot sees that his heel was raised but over the RA line then he may come to the lead and say, "John, I have white #42 with his heels raised in the RA, it should be a block." There is rarely, if ever, any debate. The Lead changes the call and awards the free throws.

Scrapper1 Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaylor64
If an official is ruling on a play just on the basis that a block/charge is involving the restricted area and the restricted area alone the other officials may come to the official who made the call and give extra information.

You know what? That's right. I forgot about that. I think there's a ruling about a difference of opinion NOT involving the Restricted Area. I had forgotten about that. Excellent point.

JugglingReferee Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaylor64
great call by Mike Callahan. Defenders Right heel was in the restricted area. This is not a blarge. If an official is ruling on a play just on the basis that a block/charge is involving the restricted area and the restricted area alone the other officials may come to the official who made the call and give extra information. For example, if Lead has an offensive foul and it WAS an RA play, and the slot sees that his heel was raised but over the RA line then he may come to the lead and say, "John, I have white #42 with his heels raised in the RA, it should be a block." There is rarely, if ever, any debate. The Lead changes the call and awards the free throws.

Completely agree.

The same should happen in our Fed games if a player taking a charge was standing on the OOB line and two conflicting signals happen. If one officials shares with the other that B was OOB, then by rule you have a block. Now, if the PC official's judgment remains that B was IB, then I think you have to go with the DF.

That NBA crew looked great getting the call correct.

IREFU2 Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:55am

Its good to know that the Professionals have blarges as well!!!! All year, I have been working on no prelims...and it has kept me out of trouble several times.:)

caliref Thu Feb 21, 2008 04:42pm

I wish they would just get rid of that arc because the NBA referees should be good enough to call it correctly without the line there.

Also, I think the line is a defensive disadvantage because it is like having a virtual screen set if you want to get a legal guarding position.

Camron Rust Thu Feb 21, 2008 04:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
Completely agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee


The same should happen in our Fed games if a player taking a charge was standing on the OOB line and two conflicting signals happen. If one officials shares with the other that B was OOB, then by rule you have a block. Now, if the PC official's judgment remains that B was IB, then I think you have to go with the DF.


This is an old topic that I hesitate to raise...but....not necessarily. B1 only gives up LGP by being OOB. They don't get automatically pegged with a foul. If they were moving, jumping, etc., they get the foul. If they were there in a manner where LGP was not a factor, they don't necessarily get the foul. The rule ONLY says that a player can't have LGP while OOB...nothing more.


All the case plays addressing the issue make one important implication...that the defender was acvtively guarding the opponent. And by actively guarding, I mean moving in an attempt to maintain position but stepping OOB in the process. The defender gets the foul because the were OOB since the actions they were engaged in required LGP to be legal.


Much like a player stationary in the lane with their back to a dribble/drive who doesn't have LGP, the player who is OOB can still be fouled in the right circumstances; the offensive player can commit a foul that is not a charge, but a push, hold, illegal use of hands, etc. None of those are impacted by LGP and, as a result, have no dependancy on being inbounds or OOB.




All_Heart Thu Feb 21, 2008 06:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by caliref
I wish they would just get rid of that arc because the NBA referees should be good enough to call it correctly without the line there.

Also, I think the line is a defensive disadvantage because it is like having a virtual screen set if you want to get a legal guarding position.

This is the reason that the restricted area was implemented! The NBA wanted more drives to the basket. The secondary defender would jump over and take away those drives to the basket.

Scrapper1 Fri Feb 22, 2008 08:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by caliref
I wish they would just get rid of that arc because the NBA referees should be good enough to call it correctly without the line there.

Also, I think the line is a defensive disadvantage because it is like having a virtual screen set if you want to get a legal guarding position.

The arc has nothing at all to do with the ability of the referees. The referees are good enough to call it correctly whether the arc is there or not.

As All Heart mentioned, the purpose of the arc is to prevent "cheap" charges being picked up by secondary defenders. The NBA philosophy is that if you are that close to the basket, you're not really playing defense; you're only there to try and draw a charge. They don't mind having offensive fouls, but they don't want people taking a position with the sole purpose of drawing the offensive foul.

Jurassic Referee Fri Feb 22, 2008 09:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1
They don't mind having offensive fouls, but they don't want people taking a position with the sole purpose of drawing the offensive foul.

Yup, that would be called "playing help defense". And "help defense" is frowned on in the NBA because it would cut down scoring. And besides cutting down scoring, you wouldn't see all of those awesome dunks from players who otherwise usually can't dribble, pass or shoot a 15 footer. And you also wouldn't get to see those players who just made that awesome dunk pound his chest, point at the defender he dunked on, dance, and perform all of those other little post-dunk acts that we've grown to know and love....all while the other team is going 5 on 4 the other way.

The NBA......fantaaaaastic......

ace Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:25am

The NBA rules have made it to the stands of high school gyms all around us. I was working my last game of the season two weeks ago, when we had a charge about where the semi-cirlce would be on a NBA court.

Same fan, in the same seat, every year I've been there, yells out "How is that a charge, he was too far under the basket?!"

We have a load of subs coming in and he asks
"Isn't therea rule about that?"
"only in the NBA" i say.
he replies "kind of like traveling isn't in there rule book but its in the HS one?"
"yeah, kind of like that." I smile and we go on.

btaylor64 Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1
You know what? That's right. I forgot about that. I think there's a ruling about a difference of opinion NOT involving the Restricted Area. I had forgotten about that. Excellent point.

Yeah in block/charge plays that don't involve the RA it is a double foul and resume from the POI.

Jurassic,

There is help defense. All our RA plays involve secondary defenders. Primary defenders don't have to be outside the RA to take a charge. We just don't want guys running in there and undercuting guys like they do in college. Its a safety thing and an opening up the lane thing like you said. What's wrong with opening up the lane for more scoring? What would you rather watch and referee, a game in the 50s or in the 90s?

Jurassic Referee Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaylor64
1) All <font color = red>our</font> RA plays involve secondary defenders. Primary defenders don't have to be outside the RA to take a charge. <font color = red>We</font> just don't want guys running in there and undercuting guys like they do in college.

2) What would you rather watch and referee, a game in the 50s or in the 90s?

1) Our? We? Did you skip high school ball before you got a chance to do a varsity game and move straight into the NBA? If so, congratulations.

2) I'd rather watch <b>any</b> game at <b>any</b> level from <b>any</b> time period than the current doo-doo that they're playing (supposedly) in to-day's NBA. The NBA is unwatchable imo.

IREFU2 Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
1) Our? We? Did you skip high school ball before you got a chance to do avarsity game and move right into the NBA? If so, congratulations.

2) I'd rather watch <b>any</b> game at <b>any</b> level from <b>any</b> time period than the current doo-doo that they're playing (supposedly) in to-day's NBA. The NBA is unwatchable.

But the pay is out of this world, not to meantion the respect!!!!

Raymond Fri Feb 22, 2008 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
1) Our? We? Did you skip high school ball before you got a chance to do a varsity game and move straight into the NBA? If so, congratulations.

Quite possible that he works somewhere that utilizes the same rules.

caliref Fri Feb 22, 2008 07:54pm

I love help side defense. Nothing is better than seeing a defensive player stop somebody from going into the lane for an easy layup by getting pounded by the guy driving to the basket and then seeing the ref wave off the basket and point the other way.

Back in the day when I was playing HS ball, I took a charge and prevented this guy from dunking and he was so pissed he wanted to fight me and he got ejected.


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