3 seconds
 

When does the three-second count officially begin?

Ball in the backcourt - player in the lane, etc ...

When a player enters the lane with his or her team in team control. Was there a particular reason you were confused about this? Is this about a certain call that happened in a game?

...and the ball is in the front court

Yeah, forgot that part. No five second or three second counts when the ball is in the back court.

Call was made in a playoff game and ball was in flight from BC to FC ... horrible call.

unless you are calling a women's NCAA game, in which case you can have a 5 second count in the back court. :p

players team in control
Ball in F/C
Player in the lane
Game clock running

Another Myth Bites The Dust ...
 

The intent of the three-second rule is to not allow an offensive player to gain an advantage. There is no three-second count between the release of a shot and the control of a rebound, at which time a new count starts. There is no three-second count during a throwin. There is no three-second count while the ball is in the backcourt. Allowance shall be made for a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than three seconds, dribbles in or moves immediately to try for goal.

3 seconds
 

Had a partner last night at a district game who called two 3 second violations when the play was no where near the key and the player had nothing to do w/ the play. Ball is in the front court. Question is, and I do understand that yes it is a violation but, until she recieve's the ball or become's part of the play I may not call this because it is a play stopper and interrupts flow. Opinions

Get Ready Cause Here It Comes ..
 

emtp: Duck. Here it comes. Get ready. Unless you want to get your head blown off, I suggest that you go back to your original post and get rid of terms like "play stopper", and "interupts flow". Change those terms to advantage / disadvantage, and you may get some positive, or negative, feedback, but, at least, you'll probably escape with your life.

As for me, I'm choosing to sit this one out, sit back, and watch the fireworks.

Sorry about the mixed metaphors. I'm a scientist, not a writer.

I dont think its our part to worry about "play stopper" or "the flow" -- of course we would love a great flowing game. However its the players and their actions that determine that, not our job.

3 seconds
 

Billymac, you are right verbage is everything, I should have used advantage-disadvantage. It becomes an advantage when they become part of the play, blowing my whistle then. If you don't here from me again that means I called 911, send flowers.:D

Every single time you blow your whistle, you stop play and interrupt flow. Soooooo......if you want to avoid play-stoppers and flow-interrupters, you simply should <b>never</b> blow your whistle. Correct?

3 seconds
 

I admitted to my verbage mistake, I'm willing to take my tounge lashing but be kind about it, or not.:D

There's no tongue lashing involved nor was anything like that ever intended. I was just wondering about the phrases you used. They seem to be quite common lately in different forms. Maybe it's just me, but most of the time it seems that the so-called "game interrupters" being discussed are just your normal, every-day judgment calls.

Sometimes, we tend to think waaaaaay too much about some of the calls that we make imo.

3 seconds
 

I'm smileing and having fun, that's why I like to read this board, thanks for the reply:D

I Told You So ..
 

I'm quoting myself. I saw this coming a mile away. You may now continue.

Player control needed?
 

Sorry to resurrect an old thread.

I read through all the replies and I just wanted to clarify one thing. I understand all the rules about when the 3-second rule should apply (i.e. front court status, team control, allowance for shooting motion, etc.)...

Does there need to be PLAYER CONTROL for 3-seconds to be called? For example, if there is an interrupted dribble or if the ball handler loses control of the ball (but clearly still has team control since the other team hasn't gained control or the ball hasn't gone dead), should the 3-second count continue?

Advantage/Disadvantage
 

In my training this summer I was counseled by the gray-hairs... several said they could count the 3-second calls that they had made in the last year on one hand... suggesting that it was rarely a call that they made.

I take that to heart... "White get out of there!", "42 get out!!" usually does the trick. Unresponsive? while determined to get an advantage? (see 5th grade numbskulls) OK, 3 seconds!

---

anyways, the season starts, and I have several partners who are calling 3 seconds while the ball is being passed around the perimeter!! Lets segue to the "Pet Peeves" thread! Are you talking to them? Are they gaining advantage?

Bottom line, I believe that this call is often called because an official feels like they have a "gotcha!" moment. An official thinks to themselves, hey, this is a violation!

----

Anyways, in regards to player control... I've asked! Player falls in the key... ball on the floor... scrum... ball is squirting around... 3 seconds?? are you kidding me? Advantage gained by being on the floor fighting for a loose ball?


I don't think so.

If you want to look at it that way, the advantage is, all other things being equal, you allow the offensive player to commit a violation as he battles his defender for the ball.

Yes ...
 

Yes it should. Team control still continues during an interupted dribble. I think that there used to be a case play, or rules clarification on this, but I can't seem to find it right now. Help???

Yout two statements are inconsistent. ;)

PC is not a requirement for the three-seconds call, by rule.

In practice, most officials seem to lose count during a "loose ball scrum" (and, yes, I know that's an undefined term)

If PC was required for a three second count, then the call would never get made. First, your count would start over every time there was a pass.

Second, consider the one time it usually gets called. A1 camps in the lane for a moment, then receives a pass. He turns to make a move, then passes out to the perimeter. This one usually gets whistled, but wouldn't be a violation if player control were required.

True ...
 

Good observation, and probalby true, maybe for good reason, even it is against the rules. Imagine that Team A is holding, passing, or dribbling the ball, in other words, in team control. The ball is tipped away by a defender, and the ball continues to be tipped back, and forth, like a pinball machine, between both Team A, and Team B, players, maybe for six or seven seconds. All eyes, except those of one of the officials, are watching this "scrum", fans, coaches, players, one official, scorekeeper, timekeeper, police officier, trainer, site director, priest (for Catholic schools), etc., for a possible travel, double dribble, foul, player control foul, out of bounds, held ball, etc., they're all anxiouslly awaiting the call, or noncall, as the ball is being tipped all over the place, when from far away a whistle blows, a hand is thrust into the air, and the other official yells, "three seconds". By rule, that official could, or would, be correct, but he or she, should be ready to take a lot of "heat" from half of the gym's attendance, and possibly, regarding the Team A coach, "Serve him a beverage: tea" © 2008 JugglingReferee

To summarize...
 

So just to summarize...

Snaqwells, good point on 3-seconds almost never being called if PC was required (unless someone who has the ball just camps in the lane).

So it seems like even though the rule says that when there is a loose ball, the 3-seconds rule still apply since team control hasn't ended, most people here think that it's against the INTENT of the rule to call that because (a) it doesn't advantage/disadvantage either team and (b) it will look bad. I agree with this to a certain extent.

But taking it further... what if the rule intends to do that, i.e. when there is a loose ball and Team A technically still has control, that no Team A player should be camping out in the lane. Maybe that's what coaches should be teaching and what we should be calling??? Am I completely off base here?

Maybe there needs to be a clarification of the rule, like how they did it for interrupted dribble and kicking recently.

I can’t see showing much leniency in this example. IMO she IS part of the play. If a player is camping out in the lane you got to call it because she is gaining an advantage. She's under the basket waiting for the pass and I don’t care where the ball is in the FC.

Admittedly I have been a bit tolerant in grade school games and have allowed maybe 4 or 5 seconds but even in these games I’ll call it because it is so obvious and the kids need to learn.

You'd call 3 seconds on that with a dribbler out by the center line? You really think that the player in the lane is getting an advantage in that particular situation?

Good luck with that. The kindlier, gentler Jurassic Referee can only say "I beg to differ".

Well in that case, I'll be kind and gentle. I'll give her 5 seconds.;)

With the dribbler still out at center?

Good luck with that. I still beg to differ.:)

Did you ever think of maybe whispering to the player in the lane that it might be a good idea for her to move her butt out of the lane? And then making the call if she ignores you?

And Pigs Are Flying ...
 

Well, that does it. Al Gore, as my grandmother used to say, is "Full of bologna". There can't be Global Warming if Hell is freezing over.

http://re3.yt-thm-a04.yimg.com/image/25/m1/2153569596

http://re3.mm-a8.yimg.com/image/4269129296

3
 

Jim..It's just a call I never see made at the HSV level or the collage level until the advantage is gained. Just my observation. Since my first post about this, another district game, player in the key, 4-5 seconds, player outside going up w/ a shot, player in key has inside rebounding position, my call, no shot, 3 seconds, he had an advantage. I did blow my whistle prior to player leaving the floor for the shot. This is a 3 person crew, easy to observe both plays. I do agree w/ helping out w/ a verbal "move out of the key #34"

With 3 seconds, you have to get ahold of your assignor or interpreter and find out how they want it called. Generally, at any level above freshmen, it doesn't get called until there's an obvious advantage that's being taken advantage of. We're told here not to call it until the ball gets passed into the player who's camped. The only exception would be if there is an advantage gained by screening, somehow. But some areas, and some leagues, want it called strictly at 3 seconds no matter what. You just need to be sure you're being consistent with other refs in your league and in your area.

Too funny, Billy!