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  #76 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 12:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim C
BearfanMike intoned:

" . . . wouldn't the fact that her name is michelle give it away before the game ever came close to starting??.."

Your "American Side" is showing.

I went to high school with Michelle Lau (Gender Male).

Regards,

touche'

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  #77 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 12:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo21
It is not open discrimination to them according to their beliefs.
If *your* beliefs get in the way of *my* rights then we have a problem. You can agree with that, no?
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 01:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
If *your* beliefs get in the way of *my* rights then we have a problem. You can agree with that, no?
Not necessarily. Depends on what your "rights" are or what you want them to be. Seems to be a broad continuum in the rights argument. Everyone wants to define what their own rights are but the courts might decide differently and usually redefines this daily whether it be related to job opportunities or not. I believe I have the "right" to freely practice my beliefs. If it interferes with YOUR rights, whose right will triumph?

BTW, I have a female official as a partner tonight and she is the R, a position of authority over me. I have no problem with that.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 01:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo21
Not necessarily. Depends on what your "rights" are or what you want them to be. Seems to be a broad continuum in the rights argument.
I'm having a difficult time embracing stupidity today, so pls bear with me...

In THIS particular case CLEARLY (pls tell me this is clear to you...) this group has discriminated against an individual based on nothing but gender. In what country do you live where a group's religious belief trumps a person's basic right to not endure discrimination based on gender? (I am still assuming you agree this might be a basic right... maybe not, you tell me.)
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 01:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
I'm having a difficult time embracing stupidity today, so pls bear with me...

In THIS particular case CLEARLY (pls tell me this is clear to you...) this group has discriminated against an individual based on nothing but gender. In what country do you live where a group's religious belief trumps a person's basic right to not endure discrimination based on gender? (I am still assuming you agree this might be a basic right... maybe not, you tell me.)
Dan, we don't have a right not to be discriminated against.

We have a right not to be discriminated against in certain employment situations and by certain government entities or government-supported entities.

But nowhere do we have a right not to be discriminated against.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 01:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtg19
I don't see how or why an appeal for us to refrain from name calling would be bothersome to you, but even if you disagree with my point, why is in inappropriate for me to express my opinion?
I don't have a problem with you or anyone expressing your opinion. However, that doesn't mean that you have the right to tell anybody what they can post or not post. Plain and simple, that's none of your damn business. That's up to the people that own this site, and the people that they appointed as moderators. You completely fail to see that point.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 01:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo21
And, in America, the KKK has the right to be an organization and hold to those beliefs just as this school does (minus gov't funding) no matter what you think about those beliefs.
And it appears that the KKK and the Society of St. Pius X share the exact same value system. Or do you think that refusing to let a woman officiate is really any different than if they refused to let an African-American officiate?

What would they do if a Muslim showed up to officiate? Get out a cross and 3 nails?

Sad, Rizzo, sad.

Jmo
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 02:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
And it appears that the KKK and the Society of St. Pius X share the exact same value system. Or do you think that refusing to let a woman officiate is really any different than if they refused to let an African-American officiate?

What would they do if a Muslim showed up to officiate? Get out a cross and 3 nails?

Sad, Rizzo, sad.

Jmo

Ugggg...I am agreeing more and more with JR recently
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 02:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
I'm having a difficult time embracing stupidity today, so pls bear with me...

In THIS particular case CLEARLY (pls tell me this is clear to you...) this group has discriminated against an individual based on nothing but gender. In what country do you live where a group's religious belief trumps a person's basic right to not endure discrimination based on gender? (I am still assuming you agree this might be a basic right... maybe not, you tell me.)

The United States of America - where we have the privelege of deciding who we hire for Church or religious-related positions based soley on our religious beliefs. That's not discrimination. The government can not do that, but this private school can - whether we like it or not. For the record, I don't like it, but that's neither here nor there - the fact remains that they can do what they did.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 02:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
The government can not do that, but this private school can - whether we like it or not. For the record, I don't like it, but that's neither here nor there - the fact remains that they can do what they did.
Maybe. It doesn't make any difference to my point anyway. These clowns are lower than whale sh!t, whether they can legally get away with it or not.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 02:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
The United States of America - where we have the privelege of deciding who we hire for Church or religious-related positions based soley on our religious beliefs. That's not discrimination. The government can not do that, but this private school can - whether we like it or not. For the record, I don't like it, but that's neither here nor there - the fact remains that they can do what they did.
I guess you're missing the point I was making in that post, which was that this is a CLEAR case of gender discrimination, not a fuzzy boundary where we need to figure out where your rights end and mine begin. And I know you're not sayng that the hiring of a game official is the same as who they hire for a religious-related position.

If you're saying she is exempt from protection under equal rights laws because she's a contractor... I'm pretty sure I disagree. There have been many cases where corporations have been forced by the government to show they let subcontracts on an equal opportunity basis, which is entirely different from how they hire employees. I know this first hand. We agree that a church is not a corporation... but the government has control over even churches based on the amount of federal money they get. But taken to the extreme, it is simply not true that a religious group can do whatever they wish. Ask the mormons.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 03:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
I worked for a Tennessee association for 3 years. And the contract is between them, essentially, and the school.
The schools are members of the TSSAA. There is no contract that a specific official works at a specific school.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 03:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
but the government has control over even churches based on the amount of federal money they get.
What church receives "federal money?" Our church would like to build a family life center with a gym. Some federal assistance would be great!
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 03:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
The schools are members of the TSSAA. There is no contract that a specific official works at a specific school.
The schools cannot refuse a particular official, though. Schools are tied to particular assigning organizations (sanctioned by the state) for a certain amount of time and can't just contract with another assignor willy-nilly.

The assignor I had when I lived there would send two women to that school every game until he no longer had to deal with the school at all.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 14, 2008, 03:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
And it appears that the KKK and the Society of St. Pius X share the exact same value system. Or do you think that refusing to let a woman officiate is really any different than if they refused to let an African-American officiate?

What would they do if a Muslim showed up to officiate? Get out a cross and 3 nails?

Sad, Rizzo, sad.

Jmo
What is sad and why are you condescending? Did I defend the KKK? Did I defend this school? I'm just saying, under our laws, they have this right! Do I have to show complete righteous indignation to get a gold star from you or something?
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