backcourt - again!

rgaudreau · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 21, 2002, 07:52am

I've read a lot of the backcourt scenarios and I've also read Mark Padgett's responses but here's one that puzzled me during a game I was coaching tonight.

Team A is inbounding at the division line. A1 throws the ball to A2 who is standing in the frontcourt. Ball bounces off A2 (he clearly wasn't paying attention at the time) and bounces into backcourt. A3 picks up ball in backcourt and official calls a backcourt violation.

I argued that team control had not been established following the inbound at the division line, therefore, no backcourt violation. Official told me after the game that he'd have to look it up to make sure. When I mentionned team control, it got him thinking.

So, what's the call guys.

Ren

[Edited by rgaudreau on Feb 21st, 2002 at 09:21 AM]

Mark Dexter · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 21, 2002, 07:55am

As long as the ball clearly bounced off of (and was not bounced/tapped by

) A2, no backcourt violation - there is no team control during a throw-in and team control is not established until a player establishes control.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 21, 2002, 08:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
As long as the ball clearly bounced off of (and was not bounced/tapped by ) A2, no backcourt violation - there is no team control during a throw-in and team control is not established until a player establishes control.

I am not sure what you mean by "bounced by A2" but if A2 tapped the ball into the backcourt it still would not be a backcourt violation. It would be no different than if A1's field goal attempt was unsuccessful and A2 while trying to gain control of the ball off of the rebound tapped the ball into the Team A's backcourt because he could not gain control of the ball and did not want B1 to gain control of the ball either.

rgaudreau · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 21, 2002, 08:54am

It was a bad pass. Basically the pass bounced off his knees and rolled into the backcourt.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 21, 2002, 09:13am

Quote:

Originally posted by rgaudreau
It was a bad pass. Basically the pass bounced off his knees and rolled into the backcourt.

I am sorry I should have been more clear, I was asking Mark Dexter what he meant by "bounced by A2" and I am sure that Mark will answer my question as soon as he reads the posting.

mick · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 21, 2002, 09:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am not sure what you mean by "bounced by A2" but if A2 tapped the ball into the backcourt it still would not be a backcourt violation. It would be no different than if A1's field goal attempt was unsuccessful and A2 while trying to gain control of the ball off of the rebound tapped the ball into the Team A's backcourt because he could not gain control of the ball and did not want B1 to gain control of the ball either.

Mark T.,
I agree.
No possession; no violation.
mick

Bart Tyson · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 21, 2002, 09:49am

Also no different if A2 had tapped the ball down in an effort to gain control. No player control until he grabs the ball or starts the dribble. Tapping the ball to the floor, when receiving a pass, in order to gain control, is not player control.

rockyroad · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 21, 2002, 11:41am

See, this is what happens when coaches start getting on our discussion boards...they stat understanding the rules and catch us when we make a mistake. I hate it when a coach comes up with a question that makes me have to think!!

Seriously coach, nice job of bringing it up without turning into that howler monkey!

rgaudreau · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 21, 2002, 01:41pm

Actually, I`m also an official. I have to admit that this one made me reflect also. That is the reason I brought it up here on the board.

Since I am both a coach and an official, I try as hard as I can not to become a howler monkey. Sometimes I get mad, but I usually keep things pretty quiet and never (rarely) question an officials calls during the game. I`d much rather bring it up after the game in a polite manner.

REn

Mark Dexter · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 21, 2002, 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
As long as the ball clearly bounced off of (and was not bounced/tapped by ) A2, no backcourt violation - there is no team control during a throw-in and team control is not established until a player establishes control.

I am not sure what you mean by "bounced by A2" but if A2 tapped the ball into the backcourt it still would not be a backcourt violation. It would be no different than if A1's field goal attempt was unsuccessful and A2 while trying to gain control of the ball off of the rebound tapped the ball into the Team A's backcourt because he could not gain control of the ball and did not want B1 to gain control of the ball either.

That's going to be a big oops!

I think I'll go erase the evidence now . . .

rainmaker · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 22, 2002, 04:08am

Quote:

Originally posted by rgaudreau
Actually, I`m also an official.
REn

Actually, some of the coaches that I've had the most trouble with have been officials also. The single worst coach incident I've ever had, was with a coach who had also been a ref. One of the things he screamed at us, while we were trying to get him to leave the gym after the second T, was that he "had worked for Howard for 30 years and he knew the rule book better than both of our $#%^&* put together." Which actually struck me funny since I'm sure he was not more than 30 years old at the time. It occurred to me that he might be admitting that since he started reffing, his behavior had reverted back to type (1-yr-old!).