I have noticed this year that rule 9-1 Art. 9 which states "A player occupying a marked lane space may not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of any edge of the space(2 inches by 36 inches) designated by a lane-space mark or beyond the vertical plane of any edge of the space(12 inches by 36 inches) designated by a neutral zone.
isn't being enforced properly by most officials. I think the players (the ones I have call for a violation) think they have to actually step onto the floor in the lane prior to the ball hitting the rim or backboard. Also, the girls (for reasons unknown to me) want to stand on their tip-toe with their heel hanging over the lane divider. This call requires an expaination every time I call it.
Is it just me or do we need to make this a point of emphasis next season so all officials are calling the rule the same. Of course this may be the wrong forum to ask because all of us know the rules to the letter and would never misinterpret them.
Maybe you could ask some colleagues who don't read this forum what they think the rule is and how it should be called.

Keep 'em "straight-up"

Sorry, not my POE. I'm busy watching all the other stuff, illegal pushing, holding, etc.

I called this once on a 5th or 6th grader who was doing the hokey-pokey. (Stick your left leg in...) He put his leg into the lane as far as he could without his foot touching the floor. It did look like the hokey-pokey! I had to explain the rule to the coach, but it was a no-brainer. I don't think I would call it unless it was really obvious and gave a clear advantage, like this case.

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"Also, the girls (for reasons unknown to me) want to stand on their tip-toe with their heel hanging over the lane divider. This call requires an expaination every time I call it."
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I see this in every girls game I have done as well... I don't know what it is with them. What I do is as I am getting ready to administer the FT I look at the feet and tell them to get them within the plane or it will be a violation. A little preventitive officiating....

I gave U.P. explaining "the plane". I think the violators have all flunked Geometry. Their coach can handle that tripe. ;)
mick

Called this violation last week
 

[ Also, the girls (for reasons unknown to me) want to stand on their tip-toe with their heel hanging over the lane divider. This call requires an expaination every time I call it.


and you go it was girls.

Sorry, not my POE. I'm busy watching all the other stuff, illegal pushing, holding, etc.

So Bart, you are one of those trail officials on free throws positioned near half court who don't care if the thrower has his toes accross the line or the player "boxing out" the shooter puts a body on him as he releases the ball. Or you don't care if the person guarding an inbounds play reaches through the out of bounds plane. Or one of several rules that don't involve "illegal pushing, holding, etc" My point in posting this thread was that we as officials should be interpreting the rules that we are given with consistency. We don't have to like them and sometimes we certainly don't understand some of them but we have to enforce the ones that we are given. We also can't decide which ones we will choose to enforce.

So BigJoe, you are one of those officials who is so concerned about a big toe touching the line that you don't care about the elbow to the face or the illegal pushing, holding, taunting, trash talking, ect. No we would not want to referee the game lets just make sure no one breaks a plane. I think i get a great look from half court. In fact i can referee the whole game standing at the division line. And if the coach says something, i'll change my call. God forbid someone would disagree with you about a POE.

Hope for my sake this was tongue in cheek or you will fess up to calling a very bad game from that point :). If not, I am a lot worse off than I thought.

I agree that there are more important things to watch and I also remind them before I give the ball to the shooter. So far the only violations I have called are the shooter stepping on/over the line, someone stepping into the lane and someone moving to a different space while the shooter had the ball. I am leaving alone the plane violations.

However, I also agree that if the players don't heed the warning I give them I am going to call the violation. I just check them as the shooter gets the ball, then concentrate on the other stuff. If I don't see a violator move with my periphial(sp) vision I know I have a call to make.

In the grand scheme of things who cares about the plane? I agree with Bart, there is more crap to worry about on free throws than that. If enforcing the plane will clear up all the rough play, then make it a POE, but I don't think it will.

We have had some awful POE's, and this would be in the top 5.

During a FT, I look around the feet to make sure everyone is behind the line (preventive...) I just won't put the ball at the disposal of the shooter until any potential violation is fixed. Most of us don't like to make calls that require explanations to a coach. IMO, the point of the rule is to make us take care of player positioning proir to the FT so we don't have a violation.

BigJoe, I'll make you a deal, I have a HS game tonight. One of the teams is known to violate the lane during FT's. I will make it POE in the 1st. quarter. If i do this will you never, ever, beyond a shadow of doubt, assume so many bad things about me, promise, cross you heart, hope to die? Come on BigJoe, cat got your tongue? :)

I agree with you about this call. I had a game last night where the girls were on their tip-toes over the plane of the block and the dividing lines. I didn't say a thing because obviously no one has said anything to them this season. I also didn't have the energy to explain why they couldn't do this to the whole team and then the coach. I agree with you about the importance level of a foot breaking the plane of a line. But as I stated before I just want to see the rules interpreted the same by all officials. If it is not going to be called no one should call it and it should be changed. If the NFHS chooses to leave the rule in than it should be uniformly enforced. Nothing bothers me more than calling something on a player and having them look at you like it has never been called before. Had to dish out my first T last night to a coach. Been doing H.S. Varsity for 10 years, I guess I knew it would happen sooner or later. I was just posting something for discussion I made a mistake in questioning anyone as to how they officiate. Its just the inconsistencies in our profession that bother me.

You've been officiating Varsity basketball for 10 without ever giving a T to a coach? Where do you work? Sign me up! Are the coaches required to take valium before the games or what? More likely, you are taking too much crap during your games. I know, I know. . . I don't know you or the coaches where you work. But I think the chances are slim-to-none that no coach in 10 years has said something to you that was worthy of a T.

Anyway, more in line with the rest of this thread, why do you care if a kid looks at you screwy after you make a call? The kids don't know the rules. The fact that they don't remember ever seeing something called that way is in no way evidence of whether they actually have or not.

And how many times have you had a player with tape over an earring say to you "Well, last night's ref let me play with it"? Whether it's true or not (and hopefully, it's not) is irrelevant. (It's still frustrating, tho, isn't it? :) )

Chuck

casts too
 

And how many times have you had a player with tape over an earring say to you "Well, last night's ref let me play with it"? Whether it's true or not (and hopefully, it's not) is irrelevant. (It's still frustrating, tho, isn't it? :) )

Chuck [/B][/QUOTE]

Had a player with a cast on her arm who said "last game the ref let me play with it"- I looked in the scorebook and she was right.
unbelievable.

</b>Had a player with a cast on her arm...</b>

5th grade girls last night--one of the young ladies' left arms is a prosthesis from just above the elbow. She scored a couple of buckets and had a couple of rebounds.

Their principle warned me of her before the game. Apparently during their previous game, her prosthesis fell off during a rebound attempt. The girls on the other team all froze while this girl grabbed the ball and scored!

My hat is off to her.

That's one I've never seen,even though I know somewhere in the book it says it's OK if the state authorizes it.I think I would have tried to blow my whistle to kill the play when the arm fell off,if I wasn't too startled.Then again.....?When you think about it,she did a heckuva job getting the rebound and putting it back up with one arm.Great story,Bard.

Apparently it took the refs by surprise, too. My partner and I had decided we'd stop play if it fell off. I'm sure the things aren't cheap, and her parent's wouldn't want it stepped on.

The girl was fun to watch. She was taller than most of the other girls, which helped her out. She would get her right hand under the ball and was able to use the prosthesis to balance it. She couldn't hold onto the ball well, but she had very nice form on her shot with her right hand. When she did get a rebound, she held it to her waist and bent over it. She also played for both their A and B teams.

These are the kinds of rules I am talking about uniformly enforcing. I just picked the breaking of the plane because that happened to be a rule I saw the biggest inconsistencies in the interpretation. I just think that we as officials have to be on the same page so things like the taped ears or tape over the metal barretts etc. don't get called a different way every night.

In reference to my first T. My partner usually ends up whacking the coaches and I seemed to get the players. We rarely hear anything from the coaches here in Northern Minnesota. In fact that is only our second T of a coach this year in over 30 varsity games. The ironic thing is he got the boys coach of the school and I got the girls assistant coach last night. I think most coaches realize when you are working hard as officials and are in position to make the calls. Also, all they want is a consistently called game whether you call it tight or let more go. Just so they know what will be called. We tend to call it tight. As long as the players and coaches know that a foul in the first minute will be a foul in the last minute provided it isn't a blow-out.

Keep 'em "straight up"

BigJoe, When you say "my partner", 1) are you doing two man, 2) do you have the same partner or did you mean whoever your partner is for that might, as in you work with different partners each night?

Bart
I am the head of a basketball officials association where there are only four varsity officials. We do only H.S. boys and girls varsity. One of our members took on a coaching position at our local school when the head coach was made to quit immediately due to health reasons. So that left us with three. Most of the games were done by myself and one of the members. We live in the sticks in Northern Minnesota where there are only 20 high schools within an hours drive from us. I know most of you are in larger cities with large associations. We don't have that luxury or liability however you want to look at it. I solicit all of our games through the athletic directors of the above mentioned schools. That is why I have the same partner most nights. When we run into problems is when we have a rescheduled game due to weather and we end up with three games in one night. We call on other associations for help in that situation.

Wow, you do three games in one night! I take back all those mean things i said about you. May I come up there and wash your car? You da man!

Big Joe,
I was born on the Mesabi Range.
When I screw up I use that as an excuse. That, and being left-handed.
mick

I once had a men's league game (jerkball) where a guy got elbowed in the face and his glass eye came out!

His coach told me to be more aware of the rough play and I told him I would keep an eye out for it.



OK, OK, I made that up.

Man, you been on the court too long!! They're coming for you Mark!!!!!