Who Do I Give Credit To ??
 

Varsity girls prep schol game today. New scoreboard, being used for the first time today. Late in the first half, prep schools in Connecticut play by hybrid NFHS-NCAA rules, a held ball is called. On our local board, we are required to keep a whistle, or coin, in our pocket to keep track of the possession arrow, so Forum members, please don't go off on a tangent on how this is a waste of time, because we are required to do this. My partner and I both have Blue ball. The White coach points to the scoreboard and says it should be White ball. I get together with my partner, go over the few held balls that we had in the game so far, and we agree with each other, that it should be Blue ball, our original call. White coach continues to complain, so I infom him that we have been keeping track of the arrow on our own, we both agree that it is Blue ball, and that not only is the arrow on the scoreboard incorrect, it's inconsequenstial, because an '"official" arrow must be kept at the table, which it wasn't, so I had the scorekeeper use a pen at the table to point the alternating possession for the rest of the game.

As a final reply to the White coach, I say, "Coach, that's the best we can do. If we're wrong, we apoligize. We'll be sure that you get two of the next three arrows". He laughs, his girls laugh, the crew at the table laugh. I first read about this "joke" on the Forum. Whoever came up with this. Thanks.

OK. Who's going to take credit for inventing this "two out of three" reply.

We instruct our officials not to start a game without a visible arrow of some kind at the table. If you have to make something up, do so. That helps stop situations like this. The scorer still might make a mistake, but at least you have a reference.

We also tell our officials to remind the scorer(s) pre-game to keep track of the held balls, as required under the rules.

And if an arrow is not available; use a bottle of water as the arrow

No matter where the "official" arrow is or isn't, how does an official overrule the scorer on which way the arrow should be pointed. 2-11-7: The scorer shall record the jump balls......and be responsible for the possession arrow.

At the 8th grade, MS, and rec level where I do most of my reffing, if I relied on the table I'd be in a world of hurt! It's so good to have competent people working the table and when I get one - like several times today, for me, it's refreshing!

I nearly peed myself laughing when I first read it here. Give Mark credit, perhaps Bhuck Elics. :D

Yeah, it was me. If the coach complains about getting the next two out of three, I then tell him he can have the next three out of five.

In fact, I used this is a rec game this morning.

Fine and dandy for HS and above, but for MS and CYO where scorers are volunteer parents and kids, I bet if you asked them who they had in the book for the next posession, they wouldn't be able to say since they don't track it. Then what do you do?

Me, I can fit 22 AP situations across one of my game sheets, so pre-game, I'll put abbreviations such as "W B W B ..." across the bottom. I'll circle the team with the first possession and record the # who won the tap and then slash out all AP situations with the time except for quarter throw-ins (those get circled with the quarter number).

I use the two out of the next three line any chance I get, too. :D

My tangent detector just went DING DING DING. Better re-read the initial post.

I wasn't necessarily referring to the initial post, but if I am not mistaken I have heard others refer to keeping up with it, and overruling the arrow when necessary.

I've overruled the table on this. I've had cases where the table has obviuosly missed one, because they're wanting to give it to the team who just got it. Just had it today, actually.

I've questioned the table many times. "Hey, we just had one going that way."
It has never failed to work out. "Oh, yeah, forgot to change it." "Oh, didn't see the signal on that last play." etc. But, I'm asking, if you keep up with it the whole game by changing the item in the pocket or whatever, and it comes to pass that you have one thing and the scorer has the other, and the scorer won't back down, what do you do then?

First of all, my pockets are empty when I ref. ;)
Second, if I'm abolutely positive the scorer is wrong, I'm giving it to the team who is entitled to it. I'm not getting into a pi$sing match with the table. I'm putting the ball in play and we're moving on with the game.

I use a ChapStick in my pockets to keep track of possession. I used to use a Hickory Farms beef stick, but I noticed that sometimes female coaches would see it and drool. http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...mages/woot.gif

The BS detector is screaming right about now. Back when you were keeping a Hickory Farms beef stick in your pocket, there were no female coaches, players refs or anyone else. The few moms who came to your games back then weren't drooling, they were throwing up!

I got to use the line today
 

CYO Varsity (7th and 8th) Boys.

We have two quick held balls in succession and the visting coach is convinced I somehow shortchanged his team from a possession.

I told him he could have two of the next three, and without missing a beat, the VHC replied "that works."

I discretely told my timer "of course he was going to get 2 of the next 3 anyways." :D

No no. He's right. I tried this out at a freshman tournament over the weekend. Mothers in the stands were becoming dehydrated, they were drooling so heavily. It seems that women just really like Hickory Farms. ;)

ROFL!!

How does this apply to the sitch any? Sounds like you may have to add something to your pregame.....:D

I don't know "how", but my crew did it last week in a BV game. We knew the last held ball had gone to white, but table had white ball to start 2nd quarter. Both books agreed white. But we knew it was red ball.

The table protested, but we were certain. We figured out later that they mistook an OOB violation for a held ball at the end of the 1st quarter.

I don't know if it's "legal" to overturn the book in this situation, but we did it.

Sounds to me like a bookkeeping error, and those can be remedied any time up until the final score is approved.

I always thought that it came from Dave. Am I mistaken?

Haven't you figured it out yet after all these years? I'm Dave.

So that's why you take those meds! ;)

No. There's other reasons. Let's not get into that. :rolleyes:

I know what you mean, but an AP arrow error can only be corrected until the ball is awarded for another AP throw in, no?

If the game was in the 4th quarter and it was discovered that team A should have had an AP throw in to start the 3rd quarter, but team B got the throw-in, that cannot be corrected.

You are correct, the window of opportunity to correct the arrow is more limited than the final score being approved. It would be until the AP throw-in is touched on the court, I believe. But even with that correction, it's a bookkeeping error and can be corrected within the appropriate window of opportunity.