Ignore? Warning? T? Ejection?
 

This happened at a B V match tonight (I had the frosh game and stuck around to watch). As Team A is going through its warm-ups, I am walking on floor level, within two feet of one of the refs, and hear a player say, REALLY loud, "Oh jeez, not these guys, these refs SUCK!" I turned around and looked at the player, who was in the layup line, and nearest ref is just smiling, he must have heard it. What would you all have done?

I would have escorted the young man over to his bench and have him explain to his coach when their opponents would start the game by shooting two free throws, and why his coach would be seat-belted for the entire game.

MTD, Sr.

this one is a no brainer for me. That kid would definitely get a tech!!

If the ref was just standing there smiling, there may be more to the situation than we are aware of. An example of something similar to this that happened to me might explain why no call. I was working a friday night home game for a team that I also called on Tuesday night as the visitior. They won big during the Tuesday night game largely because the opposing team in that game thought we were horrible and picked up a number of T's that cost them their coach and their best player (he was hanging on the rim for the first T, which caused a massive chain reaction from the coach, bench and player). By the end of the game the home crowd was all over us. Well come Friday night, one of the players of the team that won on Tues night saw us come on to the court and exclaimed "these are the guys that about got killed last game. I hear they really blew that game". We both just laughed because we realized the nature of his comment.

Normally, I would say this is worthy of a T, but the situation, tone, etc, should help clarify. If you had worked one of their previous games and were met with dissatisfaction then the comment is probably intended to be negative and thus worthy of the T. It might just be a case of the kid jokingly giving you a hard time.

Somehow. "These refs SUCK!!" doesn't fall into that same category for me.

I would have walked over to their coach and warned him about the verbal abuse right there and then. If he didn't address it with his players or if I heard it again, wham!!

Would everyone here just go to the coach and or table for this or would you use your whistle and draw immediate attention to the conduct?

It depends really, I am not certain I would T this acctually, it depends
If he turnded to his team-mate and said it I wouldn't bother, if he said it so loud the entire gym heard I would T him though...
And I would use the whistle, mostly so that everybody realises what just happened
Had the guy said it quitely I would do like rngrck, talk to the coach and let him know that isn't ok and to tell his players they would get a T if we heard it again
But then again, it depends on how you say it...

1.) There are two things at play here. First, you have to make sure this is actually unsportsmanlike conduct. As has been stated in other posts, it might just be that this player is familiar with your partner (who is laughing), and is joking around with him during warmups.

Me: "Partner, do you know that kid?"
Partner: "Yes, this is the 3rd time I've had this team this season- he's a good kid."

I have nothing.

Me: "Partner, do you know that kid?"
Partner: "Yes, I had them last week and they lost after he fouled out on a close block/charge play with 5 seconds remaining. I almost had to give him a T that night because of his reaction to the call."

I have a technical foul.

If you decide that his statement was not him joking around with someone he knew and was comfortable with, then if he said this loud enough for you to hear- and HE knows you heard it- then you have to whack him. It doesn't matter if anyone else heard it... he was directing the statement at YOU.

If you just decide to warn him or the coach at that point, you might as well hang a neon sign around your neck that says, "I am afraid to handle business out here. Please walk all over me tonight."

If the T is the only tool you have for dealing with a misbehaving player, then I guess you gotta T this kid or turn on the neon sign. If you have more than one tool in your bag, then you can pick the one you feel would be most effective.

But to say you've got to T the kid or get walked on...that's a false dichotomy.

Good Post.
 

werd.

Assuming that the comment was not a joke, what other tool do you have for dealing with blatant unsporting behavior from a kid who just told you pre-game -- not even after a controversial call -- that you suck? :confused:

now is this a Technical if the kid is correct in his assesment?

What would you do in this situation?

To answer your question. In this situation, I would use the whistle to draw attention to the conduct.


Now if it was a situation where there was a dunk during pre-game. I would calmly notify the coach and table of the technical.

Advise.

Of course not! First, I'd ask the clock person to turn the clock off, and then announce to both coaches that I was suspending the game for the moment. Then I'd hightail it into the locker room, get my cell phone and call my assignor. "Howard?" I'd say. "These guys are onto me. You're gonna have to get someone in here that can handle this game, cuz I suck!" :rolleyes:

In my rulebook this is a technical foul.

I am a little confused about other rulebooks here that don't interpret this as a technical foul, please feel free to enlighten me...or explain what part of "these refs suck" is not grounds for a technical foul. It's not funny, it's not something friends say to each other, at best it's a very sarcastic comment towards an official a player has become too familiar with...and you know what familiarity breeds!

This should be left up to the officials on the court. There really could be more to the story (a kid from church, a boss's kid, etc.). Maybe, just maybe, the officials and the player have developed a good rapport over the season(s), and the officials absolutely know the player was joking.

And yes, it is something a teenager would say to a friend in jest.

In my past life i coached for 12 seasons and organized a local basketball league and ran some camps. During that time I met many players and coaches. When I ref they are not my players, friends or buddies...they are nameless / faceless bodies with numbers. I have a hard time being a buddy and a ref. Some players approach me before games to say hello and shake hands..it's all I can do to try and dissuade them from being friendly. The most I will do is say to them after game: "good work, nice to see you again". I think refs need to show a level of impartiality. If an opponent/coach heard a player come up to me and say "not you again ...you suck!" and us laughing together what message does that send? Turn it around: ref approaches player he knows pregame and says "I see you still stink as a outside shooter, I guess I won't be using my three point fingers tonight...hahaha".

Not good on so many levels.

I don't really disagree with that; my only point is that it could happen in such a way as to not be unsporting. I'm not saying it's the most appropriate conversation; only that it may or may not be unsporting.

I think I would treat this the same as a pre-game dunk. We've always been taught not to sound the whistle. Just inform the table and coaches. I would think that I would do the same in this situation, unless somebody can offer a good reason for blowing the whistle.

i agree with this -- i would do the same except I dont call Howard...

Sound the whistle, give the sign
 

I will tell you why I think that a whistle would be appropriate in this circumstance.

Last week, I attended a game as a spectator in which there was a pregame dunk. I was not in the game when the dunk occurred, but after a phone call just now to the calling official, he did not sound his whistle or make any indication of what had happened. He did immediately walk over to the player of the coach though and informed him. I came in with about 7 minutes on the clock before the game started.

After the teams were introduced, the calling official stepped into the reporting area, sounded his whistle, indicated the team, number and gave the T signal, and then said "Dunking before the game" along with a nice 2 handed rim grasp motion. I wish I had had my video camera running from right behind the table for this one.

Anyhoww, as they went and shot the FTs, I heard 2 different conversations around me of people asking why the visitors were starting with 2 FTs and the ball.

While everyone in the gym at the start of the game may not have been in the gym when the dunk happened, I don't think it hurts to sound your whistle when something does happen during warm-ups that warrants a technical, and give the T signal. That way, when you do start the game with FTs, at least the people who were in the gym when the incident occured may have some idea as to why.

If we want all the people in the gym to always know what and why we do certain things all games would last hours for all the stops and powerpoint presentations we would have to do on the court.

Powerpoint? Hmmm, now there's a useful addition to my gear bag! :D

They didn't have a public address announcer?

Yeah, but it was Dick Vitale, and all he said was, "Steps, Baby!"