10 seconds on an FT
 

Anyone ever seen this or called it? I've never seen it called in my life, but I almost had to call it a couple weeks ago.

7th/8th CYO. I'm T, kid gets ball and takes four seconds doing his pre-shot dribbling routine. Then he brings the ball up and freezes. Completely motionless. Five, six, seven, ei....ght, n.........ine, shot (whew). Partner, who was a very successful coach for 15 years and now is a very successful vet official of about 10 years, makes eye contact with me and starts smirking. Second shot gets released at about 8 1/2.

At a timeout, he starts laughing about the situation. I ask him if he's ever seen it and he says no, but if he gets to 11 he'll call it. He also told me that we should try to say something to the kid. I don't really want to because I think that will mess with his head. Next time he gets fouled I'm T again. He gets both shots off at 7 or 8 and I figure it is a done deal. However, with less than two minutes left he goes to the line again, and again I'm T. His first one takes about 9.9 seconds. I take a couple steps in between throws to bring in the sub and I quietly tell the shooter that he only has ten seconds to shoot FTs. He nods, gets the next one off in about 6 and that's that.

I think he hit 5 of 6.

Just mentioning the time limit to the shooter after the 1st shot is the best preventative officiating, I've done it twice and never had a problem, nor seen it called!

I Did It!!!!
 

I did make this call one time years ago. It was in a summer league game. My count was at 15 when I finally gave up and blew the whistle. The coach gave me the "you've got to be kidding" look until I smiled and told him that I had already made it to 15. He then nodded and resumed doing nothing.

One of my regular V partners called it in a girls' V game. I wasn't there to see it. It is the one goofy thing I haven't had to call.

I would talk to the player and possibly to hs/her coach as well, that your FT count nears 10s when that player is shooting. Would I ever call it? Hmph. If they hit 15s perhaps. By then, I'm voicing to shoot the ball. :p

I've never called it. But, I have gotten to 11 or 12 before they've shot it and if the shooter took more than another sec. or two, I probably would have gotten it.

It's much easier to ignore when you hold the number of shots up for 4-5 seconds before starting the wrist flick. :D

Why would anyone not call it? Is there a reason you ignore it? Just don't like the rule? What? Do you ignroe 10 seconds in the BC? :confused:

I had it once. Kid took forever as I got to 10, he released it. Kinda woke me up. Next time, he's still dribbling when I get to 10. Tweet.

OK, fine, I'll take the bait. It's a stupid rule. I've never seen anyone count one-per-second on this, either. I'm gathering that you do.

EDITED to add: I've called this once, about 15 years ago.

Then what should the rule be? 15 seconds, 20 seconds, an hour and a half? How about no time limit. We can just bring sleeping bags to the game. :p

Seriously, there's got to be some time limit. Ten seconds certainly seems fair. Why would a player need more than that? And if so, what would they need it for? It's just shooting a free throw.

I was administering free throws to a yong man this weekend and my partner was counting, when the coach of the young man shooting actually yelled, "hurry up, you only have 10 seconds". He was right, the count was getting long. But talk about unnerving.....clank! I think the next shot left the boys hand a milisecond after I bounced it to him! :) No issues there.

I've never called it. I guess for me it would get kinda awkward if my partner is counting and gets to t....e...n, e....le....ven, t...w...elve, and one of our "gym helpers" starts yelling - "ten seconds." Ya know, kinda like when they yell "three seconds"......I know never to listen to em, but in this case they may be blatanlty right for all to see......and hear......and we are thi...rteen..... Hope it never comes up!!

Of course.

However, I've never, NEVER seen this counted "straight," though, so it's never been a true ten-second violation. On top of that, many officials don't drop the signal to the table for number of shots until the player's had the ball for a bit.

It's never been something that's been counted or enforced aggressively, which is why most people haven't seen it more than once every 10 years.

I was addressing the comment that this was a "stupid" rule. My point is that there should be a rule about this and 10 seconds seems reasonable.

You might be right that people don't count aggressively (whatever that means), but I suspect that the reasons people don't see it are numerous and include others. The main one, I think, is that virtually every kid shoots a FT in much less than 10 seconds.

Carry a whistle AND a stopwatch. :)

It worked in MLB.

2B ump got out a stopwatch between pitches for Indians Rafael Betancourt against the Tigers.

I've never called it, and then they only have 5 secs in fiba :o
And the reason I don't, the intent of the rule (as I interpet it) is not to make the players shoot faster. It is so that they can't stand for minutes and rest or just do something else than shooting on the line.
If I have a player who starts talking to team mates or something on the line, I start the count. Then they usually shoot in a hurry, if not, then I will call it...
But the rule is not intended to make sure everybody shoots under 5 secs, it's to make sure the game flow isn't disrupted (it is a tool for us to make the game flow). That's how I see it anyhow

Omfg!!!!
 

I laughed out loud when I saw this. Approximately two weeks ago, I had a Girls JV game with a partner I have never seen before, nor can I find him on either association roster for our area.

.6 seconds left in a tie game. A1 at the line shooting 2. She misses the first. I am administering the free throws. I say "1 shot ladies" and back out of the key. By the time I get to the Volleyball sideline extended (the mark I use on the baseline) I hear a whistle...my partner has called 10 seconds!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: To make matters worse, the girl HAD started her shooting motion when he blew his whistle. Of course, she made the shot too. I thought the Vartsity officials were all going to have strokes. So instead of winning the game in regulation, the home team (A) lost in OT.

I ran into the visiting coach the next weekend when he was scouting at a game I was doing. He wanted to know where I found that guy.:D

I insturct the shot clock opperator to set the clock to 10 seconds and to start it when the ball is bounced to the shooter. It saves a lot of problems in the long run, no partners calling the violation at 9.7 seconds anymore.

We dont have a shot clock for HS in Ohio. We did however almost have a shot referee:D

As a newer referee this particular (and other similar) issue perplexes me. Maybe I haven't "got it" yet and in time maybe it will all come to me, but the 10 second rule is, well ... a rule of the game. Why is it any less important than other violations such as traveling or being OOB. We don't allow a player to take just one (or two or three) extra step(s) before calling a travel. Did the player gain any real advantage by taking that extra step(s)? What about OOB? Did the player gain any real advantage because his foot was slightly OOB for one step while dribbling up the side line? No, of course not. But as referees we call every travel and/or OOB violation that we see, in other words, we enforce those rules. Why should the 10 second rule be any different?

From day one I've wondered why referees are taught that certain rules are unimportant and can be ignored, such as the 10 second free throw limitation. This rule is part of the mental aspect of the game.

You actually touched on it. Advantage/Disadvantage. Letting them play. yada yada. Around here, most officials will tell you that they will never call this violation. Why? If you asked them, you would probably get 100 different answers.

In my scenario that actually happened, the girl HAD started her shoooting motion, but the ball had not left her hand when the whistle sounded. I know that the calling official counted too fast. I don't take tenseconds to walk backwards along the baseline from the key to the sideline extended of the volleyball court. Its only about 3-4 steps. Is a player gaining an advantage by taking 11 seconds instead of 10 seconds?

Do you call 3 seoconds at exactly 3 seconds? Or is it 3.5 or 4 because you are looking at the whole situation and only start the count when you realize the player is camping. Do you warn a player ti get out of the key before you call three seconds. What if its a double low post and there are two players in the key, are you counting for both?

On a side note, here's another rule I refuse to enforce. We were told that ANY undergarments visible under the uniform must meet the color guidelines. Well, guess what, I am NOT going to tell some 15 - 16 year old girl that her sports bra is the wrong color and that the idiot AD that ordered the jerseys that allow these to become visible caused me to notice it. Before you say, thats not the Spirit of the rule, stop. I had a coach ask me to enforce just that violation. I told him I wasn't looking there.

That is not true, yes OOB we call becuse that is a fundamental principle. The play must be kept in bounds (just as shots can't be counted for three when players step on the line).
How ever, I don't call every travell I see, and no - imho- good referees, do. Becuse if that players lets the pivot foot go a tenth of a second to late when they are starting a dribble in their bc and nobody is even close. Nobody wants that call, becuse then you have to call it on the opponents as well!
There are certain violations and calls we should not make, becuse the players don't want them, coaches don't want them, we don't, spectators don't!
The 10 second rule (or 5 in fiba) is not there to force players to shoot quickly. It is there to give us the means to force play to go on if a player is deliberatly stalling at the line...
Alan Richardson once said that we don't want people running around calling everything they see. If we did we would have trained a pair of monkeys, we want referees, not monkeys!
Do you get my point? Game flow is more important than some rule written in a book half of the people on the court have never even thought about reading.
Be a ref, not a monkey

I want to be doing this right, so where's the list of those violations (or fouls, or administrative rules) that we should ignore. It just seems to me that if NFHS didn't want it inforced it wouldn't be there.

If you're one to call three seconds on a player for standing on the weak side of the lane w/ his toe on the lane line right at 3 seconds, then you absolutely should call 10 seconds on a FT shooter at exactly 10 seconds.

If you don't call that first violation, then you should be open to rationale on why not to call the FT violation.

Of course, it was the AD's fault that you were staring that their bras...:rolleyes:

There is no "list". That is the "art" of officiating....first understanding the actualy rule, then learning how it is to be used....the intent and spirit of the rule. There are years of publications and posts all discussing the topic but not one concise list. In fact, the list changes from game to game as the game demands.

I would've taken that as a joke except for your choice in emoticons. So let me be clear. I was NOT staring at their bras. but the way the jerseys were cut around the armholes, they were visible. Sheesh. Why do people always havbe to assume the worst.:mad:

Well he said it already;)
To quote another rule
47.3 When deciding on a personal contact or violation, the officials shall, in each instance, have regard to and weigh the following fundamental principles:
• The spirit and intent of the rules and the need to uphold the integrity of the game.
• Consistency in the application of the concept of 'advantage/disadvantage', whereby the officials should not seek to interrupt the flow of the game unnecessarily in order to penalise personal contact that is incidental and which does not give the player responsible an advantage nor place his opponent at a disadvantage.
• Consistency in the application of common sense to each game, bearing in mind the abilities of the players concerned and their attitude and conduct during the game.
• Consistency in the maintenance of a balance between game control and game flow, having a 'feeling' for what the participants are trying to do and calling what is right for the game.

But there is no list, only your sense of the game and your skill, and do only way to get better is to practice and work on it.
But you should not call the 3 in the key for a player who has his or her toe on the line, at least not without thinking first...
I am not saying you should never call a 5 sec FT violation, but it is one of the violations you should rarley call (think, do you ever see them? But if you sit and count in the stands I'm sure you will notice loads of players take an extra tenth of a second). It's all about game flow

I have never called this, never seen it called. I agree that normally the count in this situation is "not aggressive." To me, this is all the more reason to make the call if you do get to 10. I consider this to be a generous amount of time.