Massachusetts and Post-Game Handshake/Round 2
 

At the start of this season, the MIAA asked officials to stay on the court after the game and observe the post-game handshake. (http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=40164)

Now, just a month before the state tournament begins, the problem is back. None of the 13 Massachusetts IAABO boards (who represent the vast majority of officials working in Mass.) would pay the fee to enroll officials with the MIAA. Only enrolled officials may work the state tournament. Without enough officials, the MIAA was rumored to be looking to nearby states for officials and is considering using 2-person crews instead of 3-person crews. It also has asked officials to enroll individually (and to agree to stay on the court for the handshake) and extended the enrollment deadline. MIAA view.

Most IAABO boards are now telling officials to do what they feel is right and they will be supported no matter what they do.

Wow.

And to think I get annoyed when my partner stops to corral the ball on the way off the court.

I hope the MA officials hold their ground. You may lose a few playoff games, but better that then do something you know is wrong.

During the regular season I receive games from my local board. Post season, I get games from the state if "IF" I register and send a $6 fee to do post season games without liability insurance just to observe a post game handshake. Nah, I pass.

My cynical nature leads me to suspect that some will register individually simply to get a shot at a playoff game. And that bit of self-service may undermine the entire effort. :(

I have officiated with IAABO officials from Mass. and I don't think anybody will be crossing the "picket line" so to speak.

MTD, Sr.

I hope you are right.

I hope I am right too. The officials I know would not officiate. And the IAABO officials that I know in Conn. wouldn't go to Mass. to officiate either.

MTD, Sr.

I have made a lot of good friends in my short time in officiating, and I can't imagine undermining my friends and colleagues simply for a playoff assignment. Unfortunately, I also worry that some young hotshot might sign in, just for a shot at a playoff assignment. They may not be ready, but they know that, with the MIAA being short, they have a good chance of getting a assignment.

You're kidding, right?

Wanna bet a game fee that there will be IAABO officials who will sign-up and work?

I don't think that is accurate. This is a complicated situation and way too political. Individual IAABO boards did not make this decision. It was done by a "state board" to which all IAABO boards have representation and which has the sole authority to negotiate with the MIAA over fees, enrollment and related state-wide matters.

The state board met in emergency session last night and adopted the following: The MSBOA voted unanimously at its November 25, 2007 meeting that its members will not remain to observe the post game handshake. This position has not changed. With regard to the state tournament, individual members may choose to enroll with the MIAA.

I know a lot of officials from my board are not happy with the situation...in part because they had no say in it. I expect many officials will enroll as individual members...with the full blessing of their IAABO boards. Last year there were 1,412 basketball officials enrolled with the MIAA. Of those, 91% enrolled through their IAABO boards; the rest through six smaller independent associations that the MIAA recognizes.

Several members of the Executive Committee of my board have expressed frustration about the situation. They thought the issue was resolved and were quite surprised to learn it had not been.

I had heard that the some IAABO boards had already directed their members <b>NOT</b> to wait around for post-game handshakes either. Is that correct?

State Flower: Mountain Laurel
 

I'm IAABO from Connecticut, and I wouldn't cross this "picket line". No good can come from hanging around the gym after a game.

Do officials in other sports generally stay for the post game handshakes? All three of my children played soccer, and it seems that some officials watched the post game rituals, but I can be mistaken. How about all the other sports officials giving us basketvball guys their views. I know that we have many multisport officials here on the Forum.

Yes. All had...in some fashion. My board recommended we not stay, but said the decision was up to each of us.

But officials do not work for the board. The boards only provide training, rules interpretation and regular meetings. They do not assign games. We are independent contractors, who work for the schools and are paid by the schools. Our assignments come from commissioners who are hired by the leagues. Some assignors told their officials they had to stay for the handshake. If they did not want to, they would have their games removed. My assignors told me I could do whatever I wanted. I had one athletic director personally ask me and my partner to stay. Most said nothing. For most games, I stayed; for a few, I left as soon as the final horn sounded. I heard no complaints or compliments (except for the one AD who thanked me for staying.)

The biggest problem, to me, was that IAABO boards did not make the decision. Rather, the Mass. State Basketball Officials Assn., did. That board has no members. Instead, it has representatives from all 13 IAABO boards, in some proportion to the number of officials on each board. That board, according to its bylaws, is the sole representative of all IAABO boards with the MIAA on state-side issues, including fees and game enrollment. The individual boards were told if they did not follow the state board, they risked sanction from IAABO, including possible revocation of their IAABO charters. I know of officials that are talking about joining one of the non-IAABO boards or even trying to have their board withdraw from IAABO and request independent status from the MIAA.

They do in soccer and hockey in Massachusetts. The MIAA felt that the post-game handshake was an important sportsmanship gesture in those sports, and in November, made it required for all team sports starting next year. This year was supposed to be a "test run," with the handshake a "recommendation," not a requirement. The MIAA policy allowed officials to leave the gym immediately if there were "unusual circumstances."

While IAABO is not a union (it is a professional organization) it appears that the State IAABO Board was protecting all of its members when it told the MIAA that its members would not supervise the post-game handshake. If Local IAABO boards decide to leave IAABO, that is the worst thing that could happen and what the MIAA wants. There is strength in numbers and that is the only way that the officials can protect themselves by stupid rules by brainless twits that have no clue about officiating.

MTD, Sr.

Hand-shake Debacle
 

OK comrades, I have given this issue some long and hard thought relative to the "pros and cons". Quite frankly, unless you find yourself in a game that has proven to be with an inordinate amount of controversy or high level of competitive rivalry, I can see no real issue in participating with a gesture of good sportsmanship. In most games that I have ref'd, coached, assisted or worked at, generally speaking, as soon as the buzzer sounds, the game is over and the student athletes have already "turned-off" the competitiveness and returned to being kids again congratulating their opponents for a good game. Again, I stress the point that the MIAA has already factored in that occasionally a game situation may entirely require a swift departure from the officials in order to alleviate any further disdain that may have been present during the game. Of course I am NOT steadfast in my opinion and welcome remarks or comments from Mark or others that would solicit a different opinion. Rut, Jurassic?

You didn't mention me specifically, but I'll give it a shot.

There are adults there (coaches, parents) more responsible for those kids once the game ends than us. Why should we need to stick around to monitor something they should be monitoring themselves?

I do not understand the reasoning behind all of this. I have been a long time soccer coach and, to be honest, when the game is over I could care less what the officials do. I would love to know what the Mass HS coaches think about all of this? In most cases, coaches only seem to want me around after a game when they feel they got a raw deal from the crew. If they have no issues with us, it never seems like they care at all.

What's next, "silent basketball games"? This is another wonderful idea from the soccer world where on certain days, the games were designated as "silent". No one (I mean NO ONE) was allowed to speak at the game except players and the officials. Coaches could not coach, spectators could not cheer or speak. There were even game management officials walking the field who would remove anyone for saying anything at all, positive or negative.

This one baffles me. My guess is the reason that soccer officials started remaining on the field after a game is because the safest place to be from the fans is standing in the center circle. Also, at least at the international level, the teams and officials usually use the same tunnel to get on/off the field so the officials wait until the teams have left and emotions are died down before leaving. Most things we do at lower levels we learn from the higher levels, so I would assume we started doing this in HS soccer because "that's what the big boys do". As stated earlier, the safest place for the basketball official is off the floor. I wonder if anyone did any analysis on why soccer and hockey do it or if it was just a grand generalization that brought this on?

Change "more" to "who <b>are</b>" and I agree with you 117%. We are <b>never</b> responsible for their behavior; we just monitor it.

Know what? If they all think that this is such a great idea....that it's fostering sportsmanship and athletic <i>bonhomie</i>, etc.....then why don't they have the freaking handshake ceremony <b>BEFORE</b> the damn game? You know...maybe instill the idea that you're supposed to <b>PLAY</b> the game in some kind of sporting fashion instead of just paying meaningless lip service to the concept post-game.

I know, I know.....pie-in-the-sky thinking.....Bad JR... bad,bad JR:rolleyes:

Jmo but I think that the MIAA should be told that if officials do stay, there would be ZERO tolerance towards ANY post-game unsporting conduct. Tell 'em that you want rules installed saying that anyone who even looks at an official sideways, let alone says anything to one of us, will be immediately ejected post-game, written up and suspended for at least 2 games for the first offense, with no appeal allowed. Iow, say "hey, if you're serious about post-game sporstmanship, put your money where your mouth is". That concept should go hand-in-hand with what they're trying to do anyway, shouldn't it? :rolleyes:

Any bets on whether the MIAA members would go for anything like that?:)

I can only give you my thoughts. I can't speak for all MA coaches. As a coach I don't care if the officials stay or go, it does not matter to me. That said we had an incident 2 yrs ago where the officials were alerted to a possible timing error at the end of a game and had to stay to sort it out. They were approached by two fans who were (imo) out of control. Fortunately, I was able to get between the fans and the officials before game management got there. This only illustrates one of the possible issues here, and in this case the officials needed to be on the court. Why should they stay when they don't need to be there?

As a HS coach (hoop, soccer, and tennis) I hate the post-game line-up handshake thing. It's rote behavior. The only reason we do it is because we have been doing it since the kids were 6. High School students understand the difference between good and bad sportsmanship and they should not be forced to shake an opponents hand. I am much more impressed with what I see more and more of, and that's athletes who will seek out their fellow competitors after the ceremonial handshake to congratulate them and have an adult conversation, wishing each other good luck, and a slap on the back not a forced "good game."

As an official.....

I've posted this in the previous thread on the topic. If I were forced to stay I would not choose to end my jurisdiction over the game. Anything that was even remotely unsporting would be penalized with an flagrant Technical. The ejection carries with it an automatic 1 game suspension from the MIAA (2 games if for fighting). If the free throws would effect the outcome we would clear the floor and shoot them.

If I'm going to stay I'm using the tools at my disposal and I'm not just going to report unsporting behavior and hope that the schools and the MIAA act appropriately.

I asked a friend of mine today who has coached at HS, D1, and now D3. He said pretty much the same thing. He said he doesn't care to talk to the officials after the game, whatever he thinks about their performance. Too much to do with the team. My sense is most coaches would say the same thing, that there is no reason for the officials to stay.

BayStateRef what board are you on? I am on 27. It has cost me nine games (one assignor) by refusing to stay for the handshake. It has made for a lighter schedule this year but I am not going against the boards wishes.

In my observation, officials staying on the floor for any reason after the game is like painting a big target on their back, and one on their front, a target that is all bull's eye. It's just asking for more trouble, and doesn't help anything. We are told to "get the heck out of dodge" for a reason. For the MIAA to expect their officials to go against all the years and games of experience that have accumulated in the NFHS seems beyond arrogant.

And that's never more relevant than when you actually work games in Dodge.:p

I work baseball and now basketball, and have never known anything but the "get the heck out" rule as soon as the game is over. Weird that MA decides to do something stupid like this.

There's so much that I would like to say about this situation, but discretion is the better part of valor in this case, I think. I will just say this much as background. This rule was approved by one committee within the MIAA. The committee is composed of a total of 12-14 people. (I can't remember the exact number.) The state's basketball Coaches' Association voted in opposition to the rule. The state's Basketball Officials' Association voted unanimously in opposition to the rule. The MIAA's Board of Directors voted in opposition to the rule. The MIAA's Executive Director has publicly stated that he is not in favor of the rule.

In other words, these 12-14 people have decided that they are smarter than all the coaches of Massachusetts, all the officials of Massachusetts, their own Board of Directors and their organization's chief executive. Not to mention almost 120 years of basketball tradition.

You may just get a call Billy. We've been told that they will use any officials they can get -- whether they're from Massachusetts or Connecticut, whether they're IAABO or prison league officials. The tournament will be played (and that's absolutely the way it should be) regardless of who is willing to officiate it. Good luck to them, b/c I will almost definitely not be working this year. :(

Chuck:

This post is for humor only (because I was the one who use the term "picket line" in a previous post), does this mean since I belong to IAABO Board #55 (Cleveland, Ohio), that I could be getting a phone call from the MIAA to officiate in their post-season tournament? :D

MTD, Sr.

So aren't you really saying that the vast majority of games don't need us there to monitor the post-game ceremonials, and on the rare occassion when our presense would be required are those same situations when the officials should take the option to not be there. If that's the case, what's the point?

It's that kind of thinking that is leading you straight to hell, buddy!!:p

As far as my opinion on this whole mess - it's a joke. If the coaches, AD's and parents can't make sure everyone shakes hands nicely, how are we supposed to help? I guess our polyester slacks and striped shirts will intimidate all those players into having good sportsmanship, right?:rolleyes:

The Mass. State Basketball Officials Assn. has posted a detailed reply to the MIAA. It can be found here: http://www.iaabo208.org/handShakeLet...2008-01-27.pdf

A question for some of you MA people - is the MIAA trying to get rid of IAABO as the "governing" body for basketball officials in your state? From a (way, way) outside view, it kind of looks and feels that way. If that's not it, then there's an awful lot of silliness involved here...maybe you should pay to fly Jurassic and Dan_Ref in as "Outside Consultants" to straighten this all out for you!! That would be a hoot.:p

Or fly all the Massachusetts people into Bayonne.

I do not believe so. The MIAA does not like anyone to question what they do: not coaches, not school administrators, not legislators, not officials, not the media, not parents and certainly not the courts. It has had run-ins with every one of those groups at some point in the past years. I think the same can be said of most high school associations, the NCAA and most professional sports leagues.

My personal view is this is a legitimate disagreement between the MIAA Sportsmanship Committee and some MIAA staff members and those who have to abide by or enforce the rules. I don't think the MIAA carefully thought out all the implications. For example...it was totally caught off guard by the NFHS rule that officials' jurisdiction continues until all officials leave the visual confines of the court and it had to get a "special ruling" from the NFHS to essentially change that rule.

I also do not think the MSBOA, which represents all IAABO officials in Mass., did a particuarly good job of sampling the feelings of rank-and-file members.

I have never felt that the MIAA had any problem with IAABO or with IAABO officials. More than 90% of Mass. officials that enrolled last year with the MIAA were IAABO...and I suspect the percentage of IAABO officials working all levels of basketball (below college) in Mass. is even higher.

And...there are some divided loyalties here. I know one official (IAABO) who is an athletic director, member of an MIAA Committee and basketball assignor. I know several officials that work in schools and are active with the MIAA and its tournaments, serving as tournament directors or tournament assignors.

Newspaper story from Worcester, giving a little bit of the officials' side of the story: http://www.telegram.com/article/2008...35/1009/SPORTS

And before you ask -- no, IAABO is not a union.

Look at this reader comment:

Sounds to me like someone looking for a chance to stab someone in the back. And someone who clearly doesn't understand why we look to leave once the game is over.

sounds like somebody wants to switch to FIBA rules regarding pre game handshake? welcome aboard the new world order that is FIBA

I bet that the first time the outcome of a game is changed because of this policy, it will be rescinded.

While I'm away for school, I'm still an IAABO member in CT. If I were asked, I'd have to turn down the assignment, and I hope my fellow CT IAABOers do the same.

715
 

I just received an e-mail today from the MIAA that reported 715 IAABO officials have signed up on their own, paid the $6.00 fee and WILL be officiating the tournament games..... Go figure. Some strength in numbers!:confused:

According to the MIAA, more than 700 officials from Massachusetts enrolled individually this year -- which is about half the number that were enrolled last year. That should be more than enough to cover the state tournament. I don't know the exact number of officials that were used last year, but have been told it was about 200. The tournament has enough slots for almost 800 officials, but most officials get several games, so the number actually used is much less.

To help get officials, the MIAA waived the enrollment fee of $6 per official. Last year, it took in about $8,400 from that fee. It has asked officials who enrolled individually to pay the $6, if their IAABO board reimburses them. My board has offered to do that.

I was told this week that at least one IAABO board had enrolled its officials. That is contrary to what we had been told...that all 13 IAABO boards would not send in the fee.

The MIAA sent an email to officials that includes this:

Be assured that safety and security continues to be a primary MIAA objective in all of our sanctioned and sponsored activities. This basketball tournament will be no different. As a matter of fact, because of concerns some of you have expressed, additional efforts and strategies will be undertaken in your behalf. Earlier this week, for example, the Massachusetts Secondary School Athletic Directors' Association Executive Board committed their membership to the support of your presence during the post-game handshake ceremony. If you have any substantive concerns for your safety as a game concludes, you may follow the policy adopted in November for such circumstances (i.e. leave the playing area and submit the report designed for that purpose).

My IAABO board has its monthly meeting on Thursday night. It should be interesting.

715 enrolled, but did not pay the fee. The MIAA waived the fee.

The state board of officials does not have the backing of rank-and-file members.

The state board told its members to enroll individually, but not to stay for the handshake. Here's the exact email I got from the state board secretary:

I don't like it, personally, because it's going to create problems in areas where the local board has taken a harder position -- no enrollment at all, for example.

Until this handshake problem, I did not even know that I was a "member" of the state board -- the Mass. State Basketball Officials Assn. That board has no individual members. Instead, it is made up of leaders from each IAABO board in Massachusetts. I don't like someone speaking on my behalf who has not even solicited my opinion.

I know several members, including some executive board members, of my IAABO board, completely disagreed with the state board action. There has been talk of joining another non-IAABO board or disaffiliating from IAABO and becoming an independent board. There are six independent officials' boards in Massachusetts that are recognized by the MIAA.

The situation is very similar to votes in the House and Senate. You elect your board President and your board President votes on your behalf within the State board. Just as your Representatives to Congress and your Senators rarely ask for your direct input, your President (and probably Secretary) vote the way they think is best for your board, without necessarily asking the membership of the local board. In theory (which is rarely the same as "in reality" :o ), you gave your input when your local board elected its officers.

IMHO, the MIAA would absolutely LOVE it if you did that. I agree that the MSBOA has not handled this situation well. But the only voice that officials have with the MIAA is through the MSBOA, and it has done some good things for officials in the past. Anything that weakens the MSBOA would please MIAA no end, IMHO.

I agree with you: in MOST cases, this is true. However, I've had a small part in a situation where it wasn't true. Years ago, guys from my chapter worked a game between two rivals where a massive fight broke out -- to be sure, started mostly by fans, but teams actively participated -- after the game. Both officials were still on the floor and one was able to get out of the building while the other wasn't -- at least for a few minutes. After the fight, the visitors tore up their locker room and did quite a bit of damage. This thing ended up in Austin with hearings that went on for 2 days, if I recall correctly. My only part in it was that I worked the game later in the season between the two teams at a neutral site. By then, we had gone through our post-game ritual at chapter meetings discussing about getting off the court after the game.

Nothing can be helped by us being on the floor. The only thing that could happen is our potential exposure to litigation could increase. Not so much liability, but it still costs money to answer a lawsuit and your insurance isn't going to cover all of it.

I support the officials not participating in this stupidity that the state has mandated. The state wants to cover their butt here -- there's no other good reason for this. I'm not necessarily a fan of solidarity; I'm a fan of doing what's right, and I hope individual officials won't capitulate. I sure wouldn't. I value playoff assignments, but not to the point where I'm going to do something I think is clearly wrong just to get one.

I think you're assuming that individual officials agree with the State Board, and many, many do not. I'm one that doesn't. I'm also a fan of doing what's right.

When I was a senior in high school playing baseball, the umpires went on "strike", even though they weren't a union. I don't know what it was over and quite frankly didn't care. All I remember is being pissed off that I had to have some schmoe in street clothes stand behind the mound and call the game. And if he didn't, we'd be having do-overs because we'd be calling the game ourselves.

I don't care what their beef was and I don't care what the MSBOA beef is. The game's about the freakin' kids. To ask/tell/encourage/call-it-what-you-want officials not to officiate the state tourney that these kids work so hard for is undefendable to me. I'd rather work at 7-11 for a 2nd job than put some kid through the feelings I had back in HS.

We agree. We'd rather you'd work at a 7-11 too instead of officiating.

Hey, you're making a buck and getting a playoff game. To hell with your fellow officials, right?

Sad.....:rolleyes:

Perhaps you didn't read my post correctly. No, not perhaps.

Did you skip over the part about the kids, or choose to ignore it?

I've been officiating for some years now and have received a generous share of playoff games. But even if I KNEW I wouldn't work a playoff game, I'd do the same thing. Sometimes, you gotta do what you think is right. My fellow officials who choose what they think is right are free to do so. Does that mean I need to agree with them?

You, obviously, would do something different. Good for you. You would march in lock-step with any decision made by your state board. Again, good for you. It sounds like your primary concern is what others think about you. My primary concern is that high school students, KIDS, have officials who aren't looking to make a point about how evil the MIAA is.

IAABO is a great training organization and I'm proud to be a part of it. But I'm not going to let group-think sway my judgement.

Some of these high school students will play their last interscholastic game that means anything this year. The fact that some officials will choose self-interest over that is, to me, what's really sad.

If self-interest includes not wanting my butt sued by a parent whose kid just got sucker-punched during the pghs by a kid he'd been jarring with all night, or includes me not wanting to argue with an angry group of spectators about why that last-second, game-winning shot did/didn't make it before the final horn while the kids shake hands, then call me egotistical...

All fair points. Which would lead you to make a decision not to stay for the PGHS. I know that the argument has been raised that some assignors are not assigning officials who will not stay for the PGHS. But the assignors work for the leagues (and in the tourney, for the MIAA) and they have been asked to have officials stay.

As professionals, we all need to make decisions we feel are right. If one makes a decision not to stay, then the consequences (if any) must be accepted. If one chooses to stay, similarly, he/she must deal with the outcome. Because of this duality, isn't an important decision like this best left to individuals?

Neither. I completely disregarded it as being a very weak excuse used to cover up your singular lack of ethics.

Do what you have to do. I don't have to officiate with you. Hell, I feel like I should go wash my hands after just typing this out for you.

Yeah, those kids will be out of the system for good & have nothing but good or bad memories left while those mean rotten adults sort this all out.

The only folks still in the system will be the mean rotten adults who are left to deal with the mess caused by people who can't think beyond their next assignment.

That's what is sad.

No, for the simple reason that the state can then put ANYTHING in place it wants, provided enough "individuals" will do what they want. Sometimes strength in numbers is far more important than individual choice.

The PGHS is bad policy. Yours is the only state that (to my knowledge) has expected its officials to stick around for such a thing. Other states recognize that there are other adults whose main job is to supervise the sportsmanship of their players.

I believe the game is for the players, which is why I think the officials should leave quickly and quietly once the game is over. There never should be any opportunity for the officials to be the center of attention once the game ends. And trust me, the first time the game ends on a controversial call, all kinds of abuse (from coaches, spectators, and possibly players) will be heaped on the officials. If this is in the playoffs and the team heaping abuse is done, how will the state take care of that?

As the IAABO boards in MA are technically not unionized, then it is an individual decision. However it becomes tough to decide what to do based on misinformation coming out of both camps. MIAA says that tourney games are covered under their liability policy. Good, so if I get sued for the reason above, they're going to pay my attorney fees? Well they don't exactly come out and say what is covered, or who is covered, so if the s**t hits the fan, then I'm guessing good luck getting a dime from the MIAA. Does MIAA mention that their own board of directors and their coaches committee voted against the PGHS? Nope. MSBOA says all the boards are united against this. Hmmm...really? Then how do you explain the 700+ officials that enrolled directly with the MIAA. Yes, there are a few non-IAABO boards in MA that enroll individuall, but I'd be shocked if a clear majority weren't IAABO. Local IAABO boards are telling their members they'll be suspended if they stick around for a pghs. Ok, then how come there have been plenty of instances of people sticking around, and not 1 suspension (to the best of my knowledge)? I know of at least 1 board that encouraged their members to enroll directly with the MIAA.

This whole things stinks, and I agree with you that the kids are losing out. But I don't think what the refs are asking for is unreasonable. We're not asking the MIAA to park our cars and hold the front door open for us. We're asking for basic peace of mind knowing that in a worst-case-pghs scenario, we're covered legally and reasonably protected from bodily injury. Our local boards/MSBOA have failed us for not working this out in a timely fashion, and for the misinformation distributed to its members. When did our local board/MSBOA ask us how we wanted to proceed once it became apparent MIAA wasn't going to budge? Oh yeah, that's right...they didn't.

ma_ref, you get it. I'm not sure either side is necessarily right or wrong.

As for the comments about strength in numbers and ethics (I think someone needs to get a dictionary out and look up what that means), the assumption that because MSBOA is making a decision therefore making it "right" is not a settled issue. Perhaps the strength in numbers rests with those who disagree.

Bingo! Whose job is it to see that sportsmanship standards are maintained <b>after</b> a game is over? The people who have that basic responsibility as part of their jobs-the coaches and administrators-- are trying to shift their responsibility on to the officials.

It's exactly the same as if something happens during a game. The first response is always that the officials let things get out of hand.

I believe IAABO is the training/certification body in MA. If this is the case then I doubt that even your own insurance policy (home owner, NASO, whatever) will cover you for these games since you are going against IAABO's policy & procedure.

I'm not one to usually bring up the threat of a lawsuit when discussing these things but in this case I think it's safe to say that all bets are off once you knowingly go against the advice of the body that trains you. And not just for the post game handshake.

I believe you are correct. We were told that additional insurance had to be purchased through our carrier for this type of coverage. I think they had come to an agreement with the insurance company, but the coverage was never actually purchased, as the pghs issue was never fully resolved and members continue to be advised not to stick around.

And what I'm saying is no sane insurance company will cover you even if you plan to not stick around for the pghs. If you work these games you're violating approved procedure and that opens you up to personal liability at ANY point in the game. I'm not a lawyer but I think any decent civil attorney can make this point and get a judgement for their client.

So to you guys who think you'll be insured...call your insurance company and ask them if they will sell you the "I am guaranteed to lose in court" policy. Ask them if they'll throw in the "I drive drunk" coverage as well.

Word.

What I don't understand is the purpose behind asking the officials to stick around. The state thinks they've removed the jurisdiction of the officials by fiat, in order to avoid the possibility of a stupid coach getting himself a post-game T that costs his team the game. (Now this stupid coach can say what he wants with impunity.) So, without jurisdiction, why have the officials stick around? Warm and fuzzies?

Pissing content IMO

"Hey why don't you do this?"
"Are you nuts? We'll never do this."
"You won't, eh? We'll see..."

Happens every day in real life.

The insurance liability was resolved a while ago. IAABO went to the insurance carrier, who agreed to cover the post-game handshake for regular season games for an additional premium. The MIAA agreed to pay the additional premium, which I heard is about $1 per official. According to my board treasurer, $13 of our dues is for insurance. The MIAA said it has insurance for its tournament.

But don't let this insurance liability issue cloud the real issue. This is about power and control. The MIAA wants to run its tournaments and its games its own ways. Many officials had no problems this year staying an extra 30 seconds for the handhake. Others did as they always have...and left the gym at once.

My IAABO board has given full backing to officials -- regardless of their choice. There was no directive that we had to stay. My assignors said the same thing: the choice was mine.

It does appear that the state tournament will use 2-person crews for the early games because there are not enough qualified officials to work 3-person games until the quarter finals. Two-person is the norm for the vast majority of regular season games here, but the state tournament went to 3-person crews for all games two years ago.

The MIAA went to the NFHS and got a ruling that the officials game jurisdiction ends when the referee approves the final score -- not when the officials leave the confines of the gym. We have been told that a nod or a "thumbs up" or "Yes, the score is right" is good enough. Any action after that, while we are still on the court, is to be penalized under MIAA sportsmanship rules, not as part of the game. So if a coach or player says a magic word after you have approved the score, it will have no bearing on the game, but could end up with a disqualification from future games.

As for the purpose, I will let the MIAA speak for itself. This is directly from the MIAA:

The mission of education-based athletics is quite different than the mission of other basketball organizations for which you may also officiate. We have a strong commitment to both exemplary sportsmanship, and to improving the culture/climate associated with school activities in all of the 34 sports recognized by the MIAA.

The vote of our policy-making Council (MIAC) with regard to contest officials’ presence for post-game handshakes in all sports was viewed by Council members to be a significant step in advancing both sportsmanship and improving game culture/climate. Contest officials are uniquely and critically important to all of the 100,000 competitions which take place among our high schools annually. The officials’ presence during this end-of-game ceremony sends a positive message. That participation closes a circle of mutual respect among all of the principal game participants (i.e. student athletes, coaches, and contest officials).

Well I just read that ma_ref thinks it has not been resolved, and it's still my opinion that any decent lawyer will rip you guys to shreds if something bad happens at any point in the game regardless of your insurance coverage or whether you planned on staying for the pghs or not.

But it's not my problem, so good luck to you all.

You misspelled "warm and fuzzies." I'm just sayin'.

It's a show. It's actually referred to as a post-game "celebration". We're not there to supervise it. We're there to be part of the sportsmanship celebration.

With a couple hundred people 20 feet behind us.

And no security.

Absolutely insane. :(

Directly from the Mass. State Basketball Officials Assn. letter to members of Jan. 27:
"At that meeting (Jan. 10) both liability and safety was discussed. It was determined that we would look in to purchasing insurance to resolve the liability issue (this, in fact, has been resolved)."

It is a done deal, no matter what others are saying.

Good luck with that, it aint my house we're talking about.

Yes that issue has been resolved, but actually purchasing the additional coverage was contingent upon resolving the other matter - security of the officials during the pghs. Since the security issue still hasn't been resolved, the extra insurance was never actually purchased, and officials working the tournament are doing so at their own risk of liability.

I don't remember who said it in this thread, but he was correct when he said that the school and its adult representatives are the responsible for the conduct of its student-athletes, not the game offidials. Once the game is over and the R has approved the final score, the officials are supposed to leave the floor immediately and they should do it together. The "brainless twits" at the MIAA should read the NFHS Officials Manual or since the MIAA uses IAABO officials should read the IAABO High School Handbook. Furthermore, the "brainless twits" at the MIAA should just ask some of its peers around the country for an opinion about their stupid idea. If the MIAA wants the post-game handshake policed then it needs to mandate the schools involved provide enough adminstrator/teachers at the game to perform such a function because these are the people who are really responsible for teaching sportsmanship to student-athletes.

Any official who would stay on the cour to watch the post-game handshake is nuts. And as far as the tournament, there is no way I would accept an assignment that would require me to stay on the cour to watch the post-game handshake. Any official who does accept such an assignment is telling everybody involved that he doesn't care about his own safety or the safety of his fellow basketball officials.

MTD, Sr.

This just in.
 

From an email the MIAA sent to officials Friday night:
The MIAA has extended the deadline for officials to enroll and work the state tournament. It also announced that it was cutting all ties with the Mass. State Basketball Officials Assn. and would remove MSBOA representatives from all MIAA committees. It said it would work with individual IAABO boards and independent boards to insure that officials are represented on MIAA committees.

(Now also posted on the MIAA Web site):
http://miaa.net/Basketball-Official-Email-feb8.htm

The MIAA said that it would be using 2-person crews through regional quarter-final games, unless the additional enrollment adds enough qualified officials to use 3-person crews.

Saturday's Boston Globe has a detailed article that was written before the email was sent:
http://www.boston.com/sports/schools...ouchy_subject/

Interesting, balanced article on the handshake controversy:
http://www.thesunchronicle.com/artic...s/sports10.txt

Sign Book ??
 

From the article:
"Nowadays, officials run off the court the second the final buzzer sounds. The rules still state that they are supposed to sign the official scorebook at the close of the game, but that hasn't been fully enforced in many years in the effort to get them off the court and out of harm's way."

I'm pretty sure that this isn't a NFHS rule, but I believe that Massachusetts uses NCAA rules. Is signing the book an NCAA rule?

The article was wrong. NFHS and NCAA rules are identical. In neither ruleset does the R have to sign the book at the completion of the game. The R is supposed to check and approve the final score. A wave, thumbs-up, etc. on the way out is the usual way of doing so(if you feel like doing it).

Mass.uses NFHS rules with three changes/modifications: 30-second shot clock, no 10-second count for girls and the coaching box.

Only time a book's ever been signed when I'm at the scorer's table is by the R before the game.

From IAABO President
 

This message below was sent to members of one of the IAABO boards in Western MA..Note the comment from Peter Carroll.

I wonder if all the MSBOA and IAABO guys who last week were calling me a scab for registering with the state are now not going to register themselves? They were very concerned about safety and liability? Do you think they will still not register as their "concerns" still have not been met...

IAABO Board #44
Faithful Board #44 members,

After literally months and many, many hours of work on
the phone, by -e-mail, and in person, the executive
board of IAABO Board #44 has agreed with the MIAA
initiatives for safety and security for our members
and the process of enrolling our members for
consideration for this years' state tournament has
begun as we speak. IAABO International President Peter
Carroll and I talked for quite some time on the phone
today and his message is VERY clear: We have the
responsibility to service the schools that we work at;
enroll in the MIAA tournament and work in the games.
He and other IAABO executives will work out the
details of our issues after the season in preparation
for next year.

In a nutshell, the game/site administrator will be on
the court with us, at our side, with direct and
immediate access to police or security in case we need
them. We can and should leave the floor if directed by
the administrator or police/security officer. We
should then work directly with the administrator to
complete the MIAA form required for when we leave a
game prior to the post game handshake. Otherwise, we
will stand with the game administrator next to us and
observe the post game handshake.

Bumping this (which was just one of several threads on this issue) because I ran across this on another board: http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/arti...2600274820.txt

I guess in some states a few of the ceremonial handshakes have gone awry. So now they're NOT requiring them. Go figure.