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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 12:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
A few years ago, I had a 6th grade girls game in our local kids rec league. It was their fifth game of the season. One girl had on taped-over earrings. I told her and her coach she could not play with the earrings on. The coach (who was her dad) said all the other refs that season allowed her to play with them on and taped. I told him that they were wrong and it wasn't going to happen here - period. I also thanked him for informing me of the error the others had made and that, since I was supervisor of officials, I would now fine each one of them. Of course, I knew they hadn't allowed this since it is a huge POI in our league, but he thought I was serious. He said "You can't do that - some of them are only HS kids and need the money." I said "Not only will I fine them, I might even fire some of the experienced ones for ignoring the rule when they knew better." Of course, I wasn't going to do any of this, but he turned bright red before he walked away.

I checked a few times during the rest of the season and that girl always had her earrings out at her games.

I've been in this movie before. The excuse "they can't be removed" always pops up and I politely say, sorry, she is ineligible to play. Two seconds later , they are out.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 12:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018
In reality, the state athletics associations are the final authority on the rules. View the NFHS as the vendor that supplies rules, and the states simply utilize their rules, but are free to make exceptions wherever they deem fit.
I certainly understand that. I work in a state with a number of "modifications" that are outside the NFHS rule set. But it is one thing to say it is OK to wear light yellow for the home team or to use the shot-clock and quite another to determine whether a particular item is safe. Clearly, if your state has such a blanket rule, you have to work with it. I do not believe that my state association takes on that authority -- or wants to.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 12:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTheRef
Hard or metal, either one works for me especially when it is on the hand, wrist or elbow. All it takes is a kid to get knocked out or cut accidentally by it then you'll probably looking at some liability issues. Either way, I think you did a good job handling it. Me personally, I probably would've walked away after the first 5 words out of this parent's mouth. Usually when a parent is walking by or up to me, anything other than a greeting and have a good game, I would probably turn and walk away.
Same freshman game, afterwards, we just arrived in our quarters and some guy I didn't recognize entered following the AD who must have given him permission to follow him. The guy says "I just want to tell you guys that was the best officiated game we've had all year". Mind you, it was a freshman game (we were probably more experienced than most guys he's seeing) and this probably wasn't the father of the kid that removed the pad. It was appreciated but I'm wondering if that's good protocol to let a stranger approach the officials quarters even if he tells the AD "I'm here to praise those guys".
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 01:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
Especially in girls games.
Sorry, Madonna, you can't wear that.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 02:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
One girl had on taped-over earrings.
I know this thread isn't about earrings, but since we're sharing. . .

I did a game with the taped earrings thing. I told the coach she couldn't play with them. My partner says to me, "You're going to make her get her ears re-pierced?"

I was dumbfounded. First of all, this comes from a fellow official. Second, I'm not making her do anything. That particular ref didn't last long, fortunately.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 02:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo21
The guy says "I just want to tell you guys that was the best officiated game we've had all year".
A-hah! So, this was their first game!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 07:27pm
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Just Can't Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by psujaye
Asked that he take it off.
One of many things that I've learned on this Forum, is that officials should never ask players to remove equipment, jewelry, etc., just tell them that they can't play with it on, and let them, or their coach, decide to take it off. What if the player removed the brace, etc., and reinjured himself, or herself? Then the player, coach, school, and parents, claim that the official told the player to take off the brace, etc., which is why the reinjury occurred. I'm not a lawyer, but I know that anyone can sue anyone else for any reason, and in this case, even though I don't believe that you were negligent, you, or your association, hopefully insured, would probably have to hire a lawyer, go to court, etc.

Just tell them that they can't play, and let someone else decide to remove the illegal item.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 07:46pm
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First Time ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by psujaye
He's played 18 games with it on, are you saying the other 36 officials were wrong? I don't know what the other 36 officials did. I know he can't play this game tonight with the brace on.
I hate it when this happens. It makes me look overly officious. I wish that the officials who worked previous to me would go by the rules, and not make exceptions, or their own rules.

A few seasons ago, I had a girl, a star, a Division I bound player, warming up in a mid-January game, with a multicolored headband on. I told her that she couldn't play with a multicolored headband. A minute later, the head coach is approaching me at my pregame position on the opposite side of the table, telling me that this is the first time she has been asked about the headband all season, at this point probably eight, to ten, games into the season.

Last season, in a conference tournament game, I had a girl wearing a purple headband, her school color, at a home game, wearing white uniforms. When I told her that she couldn't wear a purple headband with a white jersey, she told me that she had worn it all season, at this point, she had probably played ten home games.

Last week, I had a game in which all, I mean all, of the visiting players, were wearing medium sleeve white T-shirts under their red jerseys. This was probably their sixth, or seventh, road game. My partner, the referee, allowed them to play with the white T-shirts, because the girls hadn't shaved their armpits, and didn't want to play without their T-shirts.

In all cases, I felt that it was me, not the previous officials, or my partner, who was wrong for being too officious. If all officials would enforce the rules on equipment, and uniforms, early in the season, things like this wouldn't happen. I don't like being the fashion police, but it's in the rules, and these rules, unlike some others, are easy to understand. Wearing the correct color T-shirt, or headband, is an easy rule to understand, not like calling a bang-bang block/charge, or a travel after a "weird" jump stop.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 08:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
I hate it when this happens. It makes me look overly officious.
Do you really believe those clowns when they tell you that you're the first official to ever call that on them? You should know better than that, Billy. That's the oldest con in the book.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 08:42pm
We don't rent pigs
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
My partner, the referee, allowed them to play with the white T-shirts, because the girls hadn't shaved their armpits, and didn't want to play without their T-shirts.
A likely story if I ever heard one. Ladies, go get either a razor or a red t-shirt, but you can't play like that.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 08:52pm
We don't rent pigs
 
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But they let us do it all season.......

I suppose it's a bit too flippant to use in this case, but this would be applicable.
I was at an auction once where the consignor was complaining about the price of an item he was selling. "I saw one bring (x amount) at a sale last month."
The auctioneer, without missing a beat, replied, "That was then and this is now and I'm doing the best I can."
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 10:01pm
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This has happened at our place before. Player had a wrist brace; the brace had a metal strip to keep the thumb from moving. I told that player, b/c I am the student trainer, that he may not be able to play due to the fact it has metal in it.

Ten minutes later, he comes to me and ask if there are any alternative solution. He said the official wouldn't let him play. I agreed, but I wanted to see the reasoning. Went up to the official, nice as could be, and basically asked for the reason why. That way, I can make a log of it and bring it up in our class. He said that the device is illegal due to having a metal strip in which it can be used to cause harm to oneself and others. He gave me an example. Foul shoot, player is base, goes catch the ball, hits the player across the face as coming down and could knock him out.

I said that's fine, if I go and use athletic tape and tape his wrist, would he be able to play, and he said yes, he would first have to check it though. Said sure thing. Took me a while to figure out an effective way to wrap his thumb, but I got it, took him to the official and said all is good.

So yea, you are in the right doing. However, next time, I would summon the coach. But that's me to have the coach agree with my ruling.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 11:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psujaye
During warm-ups of my BV game last night, the R & I noticed a player wearing a protective brace on one of his hands. we called him over, looked at it, deemed it to be too hard (it had 2 separate metal rods for support in it) and restrictive and asked that he take it off and have his hand taped (if he wanted). he had no issue with it and neither did the coach.
Apparently his father was in the stands and he politely comes down and asks me about the brace. Here is a brief synopsis of the discussion (it appears long but it was literally 30-45 seconds):

Father: what's wrong with my son's brace?
Me: its too restrictive
Father: did they change the rule? I had (insert high level observer as a name drop) and (insert assignor's name as a name drop) look at it and they said it was fine.
Me: We'll my partner and I feel its too hard and restrictive.
Father: do you want me to go get the rule book?
Me: no, but i appreciate the offer. We need to worry about the other 9 players on the court also, not just your son.
Father: well i'm worried about his hand. he's played 18 games with it on, are you saying the other 36 officials were wrong?
Me: I don't know what the other 36 officials did. I know he can't play this game tonight with the brace on.
Father: what's your name?
Me: (silence)
father: you can't tell me your name?
Me: if you have an issue, you should call (insert previously name dropped assignor's name here) and tell him the officials on this game wouldn't let your son play with the hand brace on.
Father: (walks away)

Has this type of thing happened to anyone else during warm-ups? I initially wanted to ignore him completely, but he was polite (for the most part). You never know who is watching (from an observer/assignor standpoint) and i don't want to come off wrong by having a conversation with a parent. I honestly have no idea if i did the right or wrong thing by entertaining this guy. Part of me feels like i shoudve ignored him completely.
I'm open for suggestions.

PSU:

You and your partner were correct in your evaluation that the brace was illegal because NFHS R3-S5-A2a states: "A guard, cast or brace made of hard and unyielding leather, plaster, pliable (soft) plastic, metal or any other hard substance may not be worn on the elbow, hand, finger, wrist or forearm; even though covered with soft padding." The word "restrictive" has no bearing as to whether the brace was legal or illegal.

Once you and your partner have determined that the brace is illegal, do not tell the player that he has to take it off. Inform him that his brace is illegal and that he cannot play while wearing. It is his decision as to whether he wants to play or not. If the players Head Coach comes to you for an explanation, tell him why the brace is illegal and that you are not requiring the player to remove it, just that the player cannot play while wearing it.

How to the handle the parent? I am a parent of two sons. My sons played basketball through the 8th grade and have been swimming and playing baseball since they were 7 years old. That means I take an interest in my sonsí safety on the playing field. Every parent is entitled to an explanation as to why his childís equipment is not legal. But, not when you are performing your pre-game duties. When the playerís father approached you, you should have told him that you had discussed the situation with his sonís Head Coach and the Head Coach was satisfied with your explanation and that he, the playerís father, needs to leave the court and return to his seat. If the playerís father will not follow your instructions to leave the court, it is time to have game administration escort him to his seat.

MTD, Sr.
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Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 11:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
I hate it when this happens. It makes me look overly officious. I wish that the officials who worked previous to me would go by the rules, and not make exceptions, or their own rules.

A few seasons ago, I had a girl, a star, a Division I bound player, warming up in a mid-January game, with a multicolored headband on. I told her that she couldn't play with a multicolored headband. A minute later, the head coach is approaching me at my pregame position on the opposite side of the table, telling me that this is the first time she has been asked about the headband all season, at this point probably eight, to ten, games into the season.

Last season, in a conference tournament game, I had a girl wearing a purple headband, her school color, at a home game, wearing white uniforms. When I told her that she couldn't wear a purple headband with a white jersey, she told me that she had worn it all season, at this point, she had probably played ten home games.

Last week, I had a game in which all, I mean all, of the visiting players, were wearing medium sleeve white T-shirts under their red jerseys. This was probably their sixth, or seventh, road game. My partner, the referee, allowed them to play with the white T-shirts, because the girls hadn't shaved their armpits, and didn't want to play without their T-shirts.

In all cases, I felt that it was me, not the previous officials, or my partner, who was wrong for being too officious. If all officials would enforce the rules on equipment, and uniforms, early in the season, things like this wouldn't happen. I don't like being the fashion police, but it's in the rules, and these rules, unlike some others, are easy to understand. Wearing the correct color T-shirt, or headband, is an easy rule to understand, not like calling a bang-bang block/charge, or a travel after a "weird" jump stop.

Billy:

I had a similar situation a number of years ago in a girls' H.S. varsity game. This was the 19th game of a 20 game regular season. Athe the Captains' meeting, I notice that the Home Captain has finger nails that about 3/4" long, and they were the fancy nails with rhinestones on them and everything. I tell her that she can't play because of her finger nails. Of course the HC-H tells me that she has been playing with her nails like that all season long and that her parents have informed him that her nails costs $10 per nail. She didn't start but she found a nail clipper and was ready to play before the end of the first quarter.

MTD, Sr.
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Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 01:58am
(Something hilarious)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCBSports
Took me a while to figure out an effective way to wrap his thumb, but I got it, took him to the official and said all is good.
Super-thumb-spica?
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