Blarge Nfhs

regs1234

NFHS Rules: Offensive player drives to the goal in (a) contact occurs BEFORE ball is released and Lead comes out with preliminary Player control foul and "C" comes out with blocking foul (b) contact occurs after the ball is released and again Lead comes out with Player control and "C" comes out with block....In both situations Lead and "C" come together and call double foul...how is this situation administered (I know DONT have it but it does happen..ie in the Final 4 last year)

Answer (a) Double foul, POI, Offensive in Team Control...so back to Offense?

Answer (b) Double foul, POI, ball in air (no team control) so possesion arrow?

Just want to see what you guys have...This happened in a HS game that I was not involved with but watched the other night.

PART II.. How is this situation handled using NCAA Men's rules?

bob jenkins

regs1234 wrote
NFHS Rules: Offensive player drives to the goal in (a) contact occurs BEFORE ball is released and Lead comes out with preliminary Player control foul and "C" comes out with blocking foul (b) contact occurs after the ball is released and again Lead comes out with Player control and "C" comes out with block....In both situations Lead and "C" come together and call double foul...how is this situation administered (I know DONT have it but it does happen..ie in the Final 4 last year)

Answer (a) Double foul, POI, Offensive in Team Control...so back to Offense?

Answer (b) Double foul, POI, ball in air (no team control) so possesion arrow?

Just want to see what you guys have...This happened in a HS game that I was not involved with but watched the other night.

PART II.. How is this situation handled using NCAA Men's rules?

(a) correct

(b) If the try is no good, then go to the arrow. If the try is good, count it and award the ball to Team B with the run of the end-line.

regs1234

thanks...same application in NCAA Men's rules?

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I know that the NFHS Casebook Play and a NCAA Men's Approved Ruling that states that a "blarge" is a double personal foul.

BUT: By rule it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "blarge." Either the defensive player HAS obtained (NFHS)/established (NCAA Men's/Women's and FIBA) legal guarding position, in which case the offensive player has committed a charging foul, OR the defensive player HAS NOT obtained/established a legal guarding position, in which case the defensive player had committed a blocking foul.

The NCAA Women's CCA Officials Manual handles a "blarge" correctly. The primary official takes the call. As I have stated earlier, it is impossible, by rule to have a "blarge." No matter whether the game is being played under NFHS, NCAA Men’s/Women’s, or FIBA rules, the best way to handle “blarges” is to pre-game them out of existence. I do not have "blarges" in my games.

MTD, Sr.

jdw3018

Mark, it seems I've been disagreeing with you more than I should lately, but I've got to disagree with your "IMPOSSIBLE" statement. Highly unlikely and rare, but not impossible.

In my theoretical example, a defensive player could commit a blocking foul at exactly the same time an offensive player commits a player control foul by pushing off. Or, both players could push each other simultaneously.

In the traditional "crash" block/charge play, I agree with you. I just don't agree that it's impossible by rule.

Nevadaref

The real problem with MTD position on this is that if one of the officials is wrong how do we know which one? Simply going by PCA doesn't ensure that the right call is made. Neither official purposely made an incorrect call, obviously both called what they believed happened. Different angles and viewpoints will allow different actions to be observed, so there is simply no good way to decide to take one call over the other.

Scrapper1

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. wrote
By rule it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "blarge."

Incorrect. By rule, not only is it possible, but required in the situation mentioned in the original post. You mentioned the casebook play yourself.

By the physical laws of science, however, you're correct. One of the two things happened, but not both.

CoachP

Which is why we never see a home plate umpire signal safe while the 1b ump is signalling out? 😀

I agree with Mark. Either he established or he didn't. If he "tied" (blarge) then he did not get there BEFORE. Am I off path in that thinking?

I think the casebook rule makes both officials look bad.

Dan_ref

Scrapper1 wrote
By the physical laws of science, however, you're correct. One of the two things happened, but not both.

Interesting.

Which "physical laws of science" defines a charge, a block, and how do those definitions imply they cannot occur simultaneously?