"Three seconds, Ref...! Three seconds!"
 

In a 14-15yr old youth league game this morning, that uses NFHS rules as a foundation, the Coach (who's team is currently on defense) is incessantly yelling "Three seconds, Ref...! Three seconds!" while the offensive team is shooting, rebounding, shooting, rebounding... all under the basket, in the lane.

4-12-3 says a team is in control until a try for goal.
9-7-1 says a player shall not remain for three seconds in (lane)... while ball is in control of his team.

So, if the ball is constantly in a state of control/non-control (the shooting, rebounding, shooting part), then it would seem by these definitions that everybody can stand in the lane for as long as they want while repetitive shot attempts and offensive rebounds are occuring.

In other words, this coach was really getting on my nerves by screaming "Three seconds, Ref! Three seconds!..." every time (which seemed quite often) this flurry of repetitive shot attempts and subsequent offensive rebounds occured.

So for my own sanity (and maybe a little moral support ;) ) I'm asking: My situation does not warrant a three-second violation, correct?

Thanks,
Paul

You are correct, there is not violation as you've described it.

And the next chance I got to talk to that coach, he'd be warned that yelling about rules he doesn't know will warrant a technical foul. Maybe not quite that direct, but he'd know he was wrong and that his screaming for calls wouldn't be tolerated...

Sounds like '10 seconds' to me. The shooter has 10 seconds to shoot each of the two FTs resulting from the technical foul.

Another Myth Bites The Dust ...
 

The intent of the three-second rule is to not allow an offensive player to gain an advantage. There is no three-second count between the release of a shot and the control of a rebound, at which time a new count starts. There is no three-second count during a throwin. There is no three-second count while the ball is in the backcourt. Allowance shall be made for a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than three seconds, dribbles in or moves immediately to try for goal.

the player is in the lane for two seconds, then gets the pass. do you start the three second count over?

No; the three second count does not reset when a player gains possession of the basketball.

a question i was going to ask. I have these youth leagues that i do and i had a parent come and ask me if i could explain the whole three seconds (which is 5 sec in the league). i said sure i can try and that came up to my mind. i know after each shot it restarts but if the pass was from the outside to in the inside, does it reset?

Thanks

My reply to the coach . . . "Coach, every time I hear you yelling three seconds I forget what number I was on and I have to start over . . ." ;)

OK, not really, but there are times when I have wanted to . . . like 5 second closely guarded count, 10 second backcourt count, etc.

lol, yea thats a good one. i know what you mean. i just want to tell them, 3 seconds? What's three seconds? lol.

-Lucas

You may want to re-read the rule.

It's not a new count, but an allowance is made as long as the player turns and moves for a goal.

Oh boy. :rolleyes: You're bringing a whole new animal into the discussion. You, you provided more information, but what I said wasn't true nor do I need to re-read the rule. I see JR's frustrations.

Someone can read what you wrote and wrongly call 3 seconds.

So getting things accurate frustrates you?:rolleyes:

In youth leagues I always tell the coaches that I will listen to you until you start trying to referee the game for me. When you do that, I will take care of it.

Yup. For instance, if someone doesn't enforce a rule accurately, I get frustrated. Case in point.....oh.....maybe the penalty for a technical foul called on a head coach.:)

You're not very consistent, BZ.

I was at a rival schools game (NJCAA Women) and overheard a discussion between the HC and official.

HC was begging for 3 seconds and then the ref just came out and said "Coach, you might as well stop, since we don't call 3 seconds in college"

The violation was called however, later in the game, in favor of the opponent :p

I had this happen Friday night. Coach is going nuts wanting "3 seconds!," during multiple shots and rebounds.

I ended up calling a foul, reported it, and went directly to the coach and said, "Coach, I KNOW that YOU know the 3 second count resets on a shot," coach looked like a deer in headlights and said, "okay," and sat down. JV boys coach and it's late January and you don't know this? Crazy.

"Coach - that wasn't 3 seconds even in dog years." :cool:

Oh, my talk about taking things for a spin.

Knowing the rule is one thing.

Understanding the spirit and intent of the rule is another.

Common sense is yet another.

All 3 are needed to be a good official...many get stuck at the first.;)

How can you equate knowing the spirit and intent of a rule when you adamantly refuse to apply that rule as written? The spirit and intent of the rule is to seatbelt <b>any</b> coach who has received a technical foul of <b>any</b> kind.

The thread relating to the seatbelted coach has been closed -- everyone knows your position and BZ's position on that. Drop it.

Another Myth Bites The Dust ...
 

The intent of the three-second rule is to not allow an offensive player to gain an advantage. There is no three-second count between the release of a shot and the control of a rebound, at which time a new count starts. There is no three-second count during a throwin. There is no three-second count while the ball is in the backcourt. Allowance shall be made for a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than three seconds, dribbles in or moves immediately to try for goal.

varsity level
 

started doing 3 man varsity...im used to calling 3 sec violations mainly because it cleans up the middle and makes my job easier...seeing screens and allows the players run their plays...been taught to wait until an advantage is gained and will talk to them early to get them moving..but at varsity level it seems that they would rather let them camp than call 3 secs...dont understand the reasoning and was hoping for some seasoned thinking...maybe flow

You've been taught correctly imo.

Not to be pedantic but...
 

Several posters have said that the three second count "resets" on a shot. I'm sure most of us know what the rule really says and will not be tripped up by this phraseology, but at least one of those posters seems new here. So....

The three second count does NOT "reset" on a shot -- it stops entirely. One of the requirements of the three second rule is team control. Team control ends on a shot. Thus the three second rule also ends with the shot. If it takes 5 or 8 or 10 seconds for somebody to secure a rebound, this is not a problem because the three second rule is not operative again until team control is established. At the point where team control is re-established, then you begin a new three second count. So it is possible for a team to shoot, miss, rebound, and do it all again many times and there is no three second violation.

Reset Or Ends ??
 

Back In The Saddle: Great post, especially for new officials.

2 nights ago end of first half team A with a throw in on their baseline. There are 2.6 seconds on the clock. Immediately after the ball is thrown in I hear " 3 SECONDS, .3 SECONDS" from some genius in the stands. :rolleyes:

Couldn't believe it.

And fans. And coaches. And players.

Zip your Lip!
 

Had an entertaining experience about 5 years ago while reffing a middle school tournament game, 2man. The visiting coaches, very young 18-20, kept counting out loud for home players in the key and they were doing it about like the OP, obviously didn't have a clue about the rule (or how to coach either) . After about the third trip down the court and constantly hearing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 sometimes before the ball even crossed halfcourt, the senior ref with me says I'm going to fix this. On the next dead ball he goes over to the coaches and says, I'm sick and tired of you guys counting out loud. The next time I hear you counting outloud it is your way of telling me that you want a technical. So if I even hear 1, you'll get one, a technical! Understood? Never heard another count the rest of the game, odd thing though, they never counted higher than 6, maybe that's as high as they could count?