First of all let me say good game management would have eliminated this situation.

End of 3rd Quarter in Loser out game 2 or 3 point difference in score. One clock on side wall in team A's backcourt.
Partner is Trail I am lead. Throw-in in A's front court on end line. A1 throws ball to team mate on the wing in front of partner. A2 goes up for shot, ball in air horn goes off, ball goes in, partner counts basket and quarter ends. As we are standing at the mid court line between quarters, B coach comes over to us and says there was only .3 seconds on the clock. My partner and I look at each other with that OH CRAP look and ask really? Coach says yes. We both go to the table and verify with the timer and yep it was .3 sec. So now what do we do?

This was a try and not a tap.

I tell you what we did later........It wasn't a pretty sight.

Ron, if (and it's a big "if") you can verify that there really was only .3 showing on the clock, then you have a correctable error situation. (2-10.e Erroneously counting or cancelling a score) Wipe the points off the board, start the 4th quarter with the normal AP administration.

I bet it was ugly!!

Chuck

I am assuming you don't have monitors. What a pickle? Are you doing two man? (just curious) Well, the table is part of the crew, but we don't have the option to ask a table about a 3point shot if the shooter was on the line. We also can only use the monitor for timing situations if the monitor is within x amount of feet of the court. So, my vote is basket counts with an apology to the coach.

You're referring to NCAA rules, correct?

I would assume that Ron was working an NF game, which would mean the use of monitors or replay is not an option.

BTW, I'm with Chuck, if you can verify that there was just .3 left.

correcable error
 

How about a correctable error? 2-10-1-e.....erroneously counting or canceling a score.

Since there was .3 on the clock, by counting the goal you have erroneously counted the goal. The time restrictions have not been exceeded. You can disallow the basket.

Re: correcable error
 

I did mention that, although it's buried in the middle of my ramblings. The problem, I think, is how do you actually verify the time left on the clock? You are certainly not going to take one coach's word for it. And if the error is in the home team's favor, I might even be hesitant about taking the timer's word for it. If you could get both coaches and the timer to admit that it was .3, then I'd be much more willing to wipe the bucket. Tough spot to be in.

Chuck

Do the HS rules say we can use the table concerning timing?

To an extent, yes we can. It might be stretching it under this scenario but the rule does address timing situations and last second shots. I believe 2-3 and 2-10 would also give us enough room to correct this.

2-13 states that the referee may consult the timers to see if a shot was released on time and some other situations. If the timer had definite knowledge of the clock, then I believe that this knowledge can be used to nulify the basket on this play.

I admit that this is my interpretation, since this specific situation is not addressed in the rule or by case.

Here's what we did.
We talked to the Timer and he told us indeed there was only .3 seconds on the clock.

I went over to Coach A and explained to him there was only .3 seconds on the clock and not 3 and by rule there cannot be a try for goal in this situation and that I had to take the points off the board. He said, "but your partner counted the basket" I told I understand that but by rule she should not have counted it.

Fortunately Team B ended up winning the game by 3, so the 2 points weren't a factor.

I agree with Chuck and the rest who stated we can change the call because of the correctable error rule and that we can use the timer as having definite knowledge there was .3 seconds left on the clock.

BTW, Ron, saw your name on the lists that was sent out to us for WA State assignments. I see you will be at the 1A girls tourney in Yakima, WA. I'll try to come watch you do a game. I'm working with an official (I won't drop any names :)...tonight that will be an evaluator at your tourney. He told me to come sit with him during a game to get some pointers for my 1st State assignment the following week, Boys 2A in Yakima.

I hear it is very competitive between the officials at the State tourneys. Everyone there can call a good game, it's the little things that separate the officials that "go home early" and the ones that stay. Some "little things" include: * loose the sword point(using index finger to point) * proper NF mechanics (i.e. no fist on arm for illegal use of hands) * walk around players, never through them * hustle, run to your spot, don't walk * Lead, two man, make sure you go to side of post play under basket. These may not be "little things" but we have to do them consistently and correctly.

There always seems to be great advice on this board. Does any fellow officials have some experience in what evaluators are looking for in an official at these tourneys, or any games for that matter? (Always fun to review)

Thanks for your input,
Dan

Ron, Ron, Ron...what happened buddy??? You are usually all over these types of situations??? Sounds like you handled it the best way possible...good thing it was this week and not in March!! Get all that out of your system now, right!! Good luck at State!

As for advice for Mr. Ivey...make sure you use all Fed mechanics...there were some problems in Yakima last year with people using college mechanics and still working late-stage tournament games...word is that that will not be allowed to happen this year. Hustle all the time...deal with coaches professionally...make the tough calls...that's a few of the things the evaluators will be looking for over there...

DJ

I don't know how things are done in your neck of the woods, so to speak, but many times what you do on the court is not as important as what you do off of the court at these type tournaments. Dress professionally all the time, avoid any negative comments on calls made in any game, be supportive of all of the officials, offer helpful suggestions when others seek them, and keep a positive attitude the entire time. Even if you are "cut" early in this year's tournament, the impression that you make with these attributes make make it easier for the powers to be to bring you back in the future.

Congrats on the state tournament assignment. I can tell you from personal experience that you will never forget the honor of being there.

Rocky,

From where I was I couldn't see the clock.
It was on a side wall and there was one of those automatic gym walls sticking out approx 4 feet from that wall and it was blocking my view. Basically my partner had the best look at the clock, but we should have been more aware.

Knew there had to be a reason...good luck over there in Yakima land!!

DJ