Timeout to vent - among other things
 

I had a good game going last night...until the fourth quarter. The visiting team is probably playing over their heads, but are staying in the game. I will try to shorten this as much as possible.

1. I call a T on #10 for unsporting conduct - he was jumping around after a foul call.
2. The coach tells me I just changed the game. During the fourth quarter his team was down 6 after missing two free throws and the front end of two bonus free throws. Also, his team was in the bonus when the home team wasn't. Yeah, that is all on me.
3. The U1 called a T on the coach for saying, "That was a F'd up call and you all are all F'd up."
4. After informing the coach that he had to sit down, he asked for a timeout and I granted it. He thought that the timeout gave him the priviledge to talk to us during it. I told him he could take the timeout with his team and he said, "That is Bullsh_t." T number 2 and he is gone.
5. I moved to the opposite side of the court, but on the same end, to where he had to walk to leave. Instead of walking out, he comes over to me and continues to talk. T number 3.
6. After the first two shots, of 6, the U2 gives the assistant a T because the assistant was up because he thought he could stand now, the U2 told him he couldn't and he said, "You all are all full of crap." We now shoot 8 free throws all together.
7. With 1:37 to go in the game, the head coach thinks he can come back in to watch. I tell the game administrator he must leave and we eventually get the game finished.

We end the game with 13 fouls on the visiting team. So that means without 5 technicals they would have only had 8 team fouls and the home team would have just got to bonus free throws if at all because the 7th and 8th could have been shooting fouls.
I sent the report to the assignor last night and hopefully something is done about this coach. The worst part about a situation like this is his kids were playing OK and they were in the game. Also, in Mississippi the coaches have to come out of pocket when they get tossed.

I just checked and I got a new rating in the Arbiter: a 2.17 out of 5! The comments were: very unprofessional, bad attitude towards talking to coaches and explaining.
Here is the kicker, I got a 2 in mechanics! I can take all the rest because the coach is an idiot and idiots do what I expect them to. BUT my mechanics should be a 5 even if he does not like the way I will not let him do what he wants. Now he is right, that is Bullsh_t!

Having coaches rate officials on mechanics.....priceless.:rolleyes:

Of <b>course</b> you got a failing grade. Did you really expect anything different? In these types of systems, every "T" is an automatic failing grade. You don't really expect coaches to admit that they deserved what they got, do you?

Good job of taking care of bidness, Tom. That includes your partners too. You <b>know</b> that you did what you had to do. If more officials would, there might be fewer coaches around like this clown.

Wow...now that sounds fun!

ha. now I know why ours wont let coaches make comments on arbiter.

That's ridiculous Tom. I see no value to allowing coaches to rate and post comments like that. If they're going to be allowed to do that, there should be a time frame imposed - like they can't rate/post comments for the first 48 hours after the game. I know the previous HS assignor around here did not take calls from coaches/AD's until a full 24 hours had passed - so the coaches had to go to another practice or game and couldn't just vent in the heat of the moment after the game ended. An assignor I work for now allows coaches to send in game reports immediately - so I had a game last year where the assignor called me before I was out of the locker room and had a game report in hand - the coach e-mailed it in within 5 min. of the game ending. Ridiculous.:mad:

And btw - just to reinforce you (which I know you don't need) - that coach is a grade A a$$-hole.

Looks like that's when it went from good to GREAT! :cool:

Indirect ????
 

Once the head coach has been ejected, is he, or she, considered bench personnel, which means the assistant coach now gets an indirect technical foul???

I'm leaning toward no, because the head coach isn't really part of the bench. He, or she, should really be out of the gym????

Citations please.

Just blow off whatever ratings he gave you. I do have a couple of questions, though:

Could you have gotten a long way from him when he called the first TO? If you walked away and banged him for yelling long-distance, would that have been easier?

After he got ejected, couldn't you have sootd a long ways away from his path while he exited thr gym, forcing him to chase you in order to get his 3rd?

Did you really have to T the assistant for standing, despite the letter-of-the-law?

I know you didn't do all of these things, but I guess after the coach got chucked, anything that can be done to maximize physical distance and minimizing any words with any coaches from that team would be exceptionally helpful. At that point, whether you're right or not, it can become a travesty.

Your assignor will be smart enough that he knows why the rating was that way. Just laugh it off. It will be funny at some point in the future!

Read the OP again. The assistant was only T'd after he said they were full of crap. The U2 told him he had to be seated; gave him fair warning. The coach's response was what got him the T.

Oh, OK. I'd still wonder if it was absolutely necessary at that point to tell the guy he had to sit down. I'd not have known that the assistant, who would now be the head coach, would have the seat-belt rule. Glad I was not there!

I don't think you really read my post. I did get out of the coach's path when he was leaving. Not only did he change his path, he stopped and kept running his mouth. As far as the assistant goes, I trust my partner - try it sometime. If my partner said the coach earned the T, knowing everything else that happened, that is what happened. We can't always get out of harm's way.

Yes, it's necessary to tell the assistant coach that he's seatbelted. It's the same as telling the head coach. It's part of the penalty and it's the proper mechanic.

You tell them when they're seatbelted so that you (hopefuly) won't have to nail them if they get up and wander. If they do want to get up and wander after being told, then they have no excuse when they get nailed for doing so.

I know that you didn't call this T, but in my opinion it should have been a flagrant. The HC is gone right here.

As for the rest of it, way to show your strength and courage.

Just to consider another, albeit extreme, option....at what point would you consider just ending the game? Once the HC is ejected if he refuses to leave and still wants to chase you down and provide commentary, he has failed to comply with the penalty for a technical foul.

I guess my point is the technical fouls were not helping the game and even continuous issuance didn't get things calmed down. Was there any thought process to going that extra step?

Why make a snide comment? I was asking you questions. I did not know if the coach had to cross the floor to leave or not. If he had to cross the floor to the opposite corner to leave, on the same side you were standing, could you have gotten farther away? That's all I was wondering.

Also, once your partner whistles anything, there is no more "trust your partner" issue. It's a done deal. It's sad that this got anywhere near that point, and you're unhappy about it for whatever reason. I'd venture to guess that at that point in time, asking/telling the assistant anything would be awfully tough to do without eliciting some reaction. Whether it is right or not, or he deserves another T--cannot argue against it.

Oracle, my only sadness is for the game of basketball and the fact that it was reduced to this. The rating system is a joke that I often vent about. I know I will never be the most liked official by coaches because I'm going to do what's right and unfortunately that often means situations like this occur. I had this team last year and those two were idiots then to although not to this extreme. We all know they didn't pick the two times I've had them to act like this. This is normal for them and many officials probably let it go. I'm almost sure they let it go because in this state you get fined for getting thrown out and I believe a T too. I was told it will cost the coach $300 for this one.
I made the comment I did because you (Oracle) must not have read my OP. I got out of his direct path. That should have been good enough. It wasn't a pot shot while he was walking out, he had to change his path and he stopped. I'm not going all the way in to the backcourt just to get away from him more. Everyone in the facility saw how this played out. I'm good with the T(s) and I haven't heard much else about them.

It's been in my experince that the unbiased sheriffs dept deputy, or constable officer will usually help the coach find the door. now if its a dedicated school cop, they might be unwilling.

I worked a game last saturday where the coach was extremely unhappy with one of my co-officials, and he was waiting for us at the table with some some feedback on how well we were doing. a deputy helped him find his locker room. (no t's or anything, he was just upset that he was getting his butt kicked)

I agree. If we all just clamped down I think it'd make for a better game for everyone.

Youth coach this weekend was beginning to call a heck of a game from the sidelines. I warned him to stop. Next trip down the court he called a travel, which we in the actual stripes didn't call. Although I appreciated his keen observation skills, I administered a "T" anyways. He then said, "I deserved that one," then sat down and concentrated on coaching his team for the rest of the game.

I've worked with a few partners that seem to believe that tolerating comments or abuse from coaches without administering a technical is demonstrating good game management. I disagree. It makes it harder on the rest of us.

Unsure what it's like in the rest of the world, but I'd like to see training for newer officials on what should and shouldn't be tolerated and how to respond appropriately.

As an aside, I had another coach calling a great game in the same youth tourney. As we apparently switched roles, I switched his team of 6th graders out of a full court press into a two-three zone and just packed the lane. During halftime I taught them how to get in an athletic guarding position and move their feet...just kidding, Oracle. We rocked in the second half and I jumped all over the coach about the calls he missed.

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell ya!

Really? Seriously? Should he have made it look like he was running away from the coach? If I saw a ref doing that, I'd assume he left his stones at home.

http://www.indyprops.com/pp-stones-new3.jpg

not these, I presume....

A 2.17 from an ejected (3 T, nonetheless) coach must equal about a 6.5/5 from a professional observer. Way to get above a zero! :p

That said, it seems to me that you handled this well. We all have those games; hopefully the "rating" from it won't hurt you too much.

Rocky Road:

You would just love it here in Ohio. While all of the leagues and conferences have assignors. The coaches tell the assignors who they can have on their staffs. It only takes one coach to black ball and that official will not work in that league. The coaches also rate the officials and these ratings determine who officiate in the tournament. And I am not done yet: An official has to ask coaches to recommend him to the league/conference assignor.

I hope you didn't hurt yourself when you fell out of your chair because you were laughing so hard.

MTD, Sr.

Are you serious??? Who hires the assignors? Do the assignors have any - as the Jurassic one is fond of saying - stones???

It is sad that this occurred, T. If he changed direction to yell again, it will be clearly seen on the film, and you cannot be blamed for goading or escalating. That's why I asked. We've been taught and evaluated on getting physical distance during emotionally-charged times with players and coaches, because then complaints have virtually no merit when the film is seen and they've chased you down or moved towards you after you turn and step away. That's why you shouldn't even worry about a rating or comment from that game. I never doubted for a second that you did what you should have done.

It also makes no difference if you are liked or not. It matters if you are respected. Gaining respect requires understanding how to communicate and set expectations for players and coaches, and holding them accountable for crossing the line. I like Patrick Swayze in Road House. "Be nice, until it is time not to be nice." There are a few instances, probably like what you described, where being courteous doesn't buy you much, but more often than not it is a great way to officiate--and live life. Some great officials are feared by everyone, "Quickest T in the league." You can always use a T when being courteous doesn't work on a jerky coach. But most of the great ones don't get there by that route.

Rocky, I had a voicemail left on my cell phone 2 years ago from an assignor. The timestamp of the voicemail was 8:55 p.m. Saturday. I was working an 8 p.m. Saturday game. The coach called at halftime of the game to complain about a T that had been given in the first half, and the assignor wanted more detail than usual in the game report from me.

Irritating? Could be. Funny? Absolutely. :D

Quote:
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I'd not have known that the assistant, who would now be the head coach, would have the seat-belt rule.
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Me too, but about a different aspect of that comment. I'm not the least bit surprised that Old School #7 doesn't know the rules.

The member schools (principals and AD's) of the league/conference hire the assignors. If the assignors do not do as they are told by the league they won't be the assignor anymore in most cases.

MTD, Sr.

Or are they just a bunch of octopi? (What is the collective for octopus?)

Octopussi?

I don't mean the plural. I know that.

I mean the word that refers to a "group" of octopuses.

(e.g., herd of cows, flock of birds, pod of whales, ...)

Bob: octopuses are solitary animals, and so a collective term would be otiose.

You're free to make one up if you wish: perhaps an "orgulous of octopuses"?

I liked that one. But Golden Eye is still my favorite. :)

I think the term is buncha. If there's a lot of them then it's a sh1tload. But as mbyron points out they are not very sociable creatures so at best you'll just see a buncha octopus, it is rare to see a sh1tload.

and btw, a group of squid is called an appetizer.

Depending on the size of the group, it would be either a bunch, or a whole bunch. I think this is a Southern thing.

...unless it's with a group of scallops and a group of crabs and then it's called a combo platter.

Good point. And if a buncha octopus are with a group of tuna and a group of salmon it's called a sashimi deluxe. This grouping tends to congregate around rice for some reason, no one really knows why.

Just don't fry the scallops, please.

Right - and a group of chickens is called a "bucket". ;) Oh yeah, a group of coaches is called a "nightmare".

I think it's just one of those cultural things.

like yogurt?

Naw, like back bacon and beer.....:D

So a "bunch" by itself is incomplete? Must be kinda like "ya'll" and "all ya'll" :D

Is a "bunch" bigger than a "batch"?

Or vice-versa?

Please - I was just getting over that. At work, I've been dealing with people in Texas on the phone for the past two weeks. Now that the project is over, I'm suffering from "y'all withdrawal".

A "batch" is how many cookies fit on a cookie sheet, a "bunch" is how many it takes to fill the cookie jar. Soooo a "bunch" is bigger than a "batch" ;)

That's logical.

Thanks.

And if two or more agree....
 

......then it would be logicii?? :p

Haven't seen a full cookie jar yet, and I'm almost as old as Padgett. Well, actually I'm not closing the gap on him and he's quite happy about that.