I don't get it
 

Ok, here's one for those of you that have coached and especially those of you who are coaches. Last night, we have a blow out going in our girl's game. Not completely out of hand, but the game was not in doubt at all. Late in the 3rd, the losing coach (who we haven't heard from all night) is chirping at me about a hand check. There was no displacement and the offensive player got where she wanted to go (east-west in this case) so I told him it was incidental and that's why it wasn't called. He asks for a time out to talk, I grant it. He starts to rant about the no call, I tell him to choose his words carefully. After a 10 second conversation, I walk away and he tells me, "You're wrong." and I call the T. He obviously wanted it. I just don't get what coaches think they are gaining from getting the T, especially in this case. It doesn't affect how I call the game, it certainly didn't fire up his team. All it did in my opinion was make him look unsporting and model poor behavior for his team. Can anyone enlighten me?

Frustration?

I've had a coach earn a T that did fire up his team. Maybe he was willing to try this tactic and accept the possibility that this method would fail.

Or maybe something else entirely.

Like my friend Paul says, "a million chinese won't give a **** tomorrow."

Exactly, frustration...he probably regrets it, but it felt good at the time!

Sometimes it's frustration. More often it's deflection. This way the coach can complain about how bad we were as opposed to dealing with the fact that his players weren't as good as the others, and he didn't do a very good job preparing them (also known as being out-coached). By a strict definition of the rule, you didn't call hand-checking, so he "had" to get that T to "protect" his players and now can tell everyone that you "hurt" his team...I believe the psychological term is projection.

Rock, I totally agree with what you just said. I've been in that situation before. I just smiled and walked away.

I've done this when I was a GV coach. Sometimes I've done it to "fire up" the team. Other times - say in a blowout - it was to let them know I was still really behind them. I tried not to make it look bad - jumping up and down screaming - but I would keep at it until I got it if I wanted it. I had one game where I was adamant about my point. the official looked at me and asked it I wanted a T. I said yes. He got a funny look, then smiled and quietly whacked me.

I got what I wanted and neither of us raised our voice or did something to look stupid.

He feels better now..........

It's excuse making.

I had a coach in a youth game chirping, during a TO he started going and pointed at the score board. Now I could have whacked him but I went with a stern and loud enough for more than just the 2 of us to hear, "Coach we have NOTHING to do with that score, now stop looking for excuses and coach your team."

It worked too, they closed the gap and all we heard from him the rest of the game was him instructing his team.

I had a 7th grade coach earlier this year after me about calls, I gave him warning/heard enough/stop sign first and he kept on about the calls on the next trip down the floor. T'd him, told him he would have to sit the rest of the game...he did.

His team was losing going into the half by about 12...

They came out in the second half and went on about a 20-4 run and took the lead and went on to win. After the game, he came over and thanked me and said the T made him focus more on his kids than the calls and it obviously helped him out.

Wow, that's excellent. I gotta remember that one. Thanks, BZ.

Do coaches intentionally push an official to see how much he can get away with? Do they simply not respect an official until the official stands up to him? Or do they really think constant badgering will actually help? Because all it does for me is distract me and make it harder for me to concentrate.

If that's the case, then you need to say something/issue warning and T the next time they "distract" you...Players play, coaches coach, refs ref....at least it's supposed to be that way!

Originally Posted by kblehman
[D]o they really think constant badgering will actually help? Because all it does for me is distract me and make it harder for me to concentrate.

Is that the line in the sand for most officials--when the coach's comments or badgering becomes a distraction?

I have a pretty long fuse (no T's in 60+ games) so I mostly ignore it. However, there have been a few times when it became a distraction and then I myself start second-guessing my own calls, and that's when I worry about the snowball effect. Part of my hesitation is because I'm still a rookie, so when a coach questions a call I sometimes wonder if he's right. Just trying to learn where the boundaries are.

On a similar note, I've done a number of JV games where the coach is fine, but the varsity coach who is sitting on the bench continues to yap and make generic comments. ("It's barn-ball out there," "if they're not gonna call it you just have to play through it," "he's all over him," etc.) Is it best to tell the JV coach to shut him up? Because I'd rather not talk to anyone other than the coach of the team that's playing. Advice on how far to let it go and how to address a bench yapper?

Those comments are "nothing". Ignore and move on. Dont have rabbit ears.....

I absolutely will not let a coach distract me from the game. If he/she is distracting you, either warn them (and be prepared to whack after that) or whack them.

I'm more patient on this than a lot of guys on here, I know, but I usually wait for a dead ball or timeout and quietly inform the JV head coach that I'd appreciate his helping with the V coach's chirping, as it will eventually earn the JV coach a seatbelt. Usually seems to work.

Rabbit ears? Good grief. I disagree.

Let the coach know that while you're willing to talk to him when appropriate, you're not going to listen to his assistant coach all game.

"If they're not gonna call it, you're gonna have to play through it." That's okay, IMO, as long as it's not continuous. The others, though, should be addressed early.

Hmmmm...people might want to be careful making comments like that to HS coaches (or above). What works with youth or rec league coaches may just get you into some serious trouble at other levels. Experience is a painful teacher sometimes.:(

I did say, "In a youth game.";)

But honestly I wouldn't be afraid to use it...one-on-one to a coach at any level. I wouldn't do it across that floor, but up close, I just might.

Or looking at it from a different point of view, you could grow a crop and have the balls to take care of bidness.

Does that mean the other 1.2 billion will give a **** tomorrow? :)

Wasn't ANY "hand on the dribbler" a POE a while back?? What's incidental got to do with anything?

In practice you call any hand on a foul and you'd be waving off shot after shot because any defender that is beat will put a hand on to stop the shot...most officials try not to reward bad defense and penalize the offense.

As a coach I have never tried to get at T or been issued one. As has been stated, I have seen several coaches who work intentionally hard to get them - and gain their wish.....and it has fired up their team and turned a game around.

When I ref, I try not to talk to coaches and if they ask for a call I usually just shake my head east west or say no (as in they're wrong). I try to show restraint - especially since I work mostly JV and below...as has been stated - it ain't life and death, it's a game. ;)

Referees NEVER call a fair game...it's always one-sided in favor of the other team. When we win, we succeeded by playing through the bad calls; when we lose, it's the referee's fault.

The fact that a referee T's me up for pointing out only one of his many unfair calls proves this point, beyond a reasonable doubt, to the players and fans.

Duh...you should all know this by now.

-Coach

Enlighten ???
 

I coached a middle school team for over 25 years. Once I figured out how to coach, and achieved a better understanding of the rules, which took a few years, after that, I never got a technical foul. However, there were a few, very few, times that I thought about getting one. I demanded that my players never complain to the officials, and if the officials really screwed up, that I would speak up for them, in a polite way. When you coach over 400 games, you can occassionally come across a few officials who are really, really bad. On a few occasisons, these really bad officials wouldn't even let me politely question them. On some of these occassions I almost felt that I needed to get a technical foul to show my players, and their parents in the stands, that I would stick up for my players. But my emphasis on sportsmanship always won out.

Junker:

A hand check is not incidental contact. It is a foul. Having said that, from the description that you gave above, I would have told the defender to keep her hands off. If she doesn't remove her hand it is a foul or if she does remove her hand, it will be the foul the next time it happens.

MTD, Sr.

Shouldn't that be a BILLION Chinese? :)

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On a similar note, I've done a number of JV games where the coach is fine, but the varsity coach who is sitting on the bench continues to yap and make generic comments. ("It's barn-ball out there," "if they're not gonna call it you just have to play through it," "he's all over him," etc.)

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Nope, those are unsporting comments and definitely deserve a T. Those comments coming from an adult in a youth environment are unacceptable. Youth sports is about teaching the kids proper behavior, not just how to play the game. If you refuse to T for this, then please stop officiating youth games and work only adult leagues.

Also I've said it before and will say it again, the only officials who use the words "rabbit ears" are the ones who are too weak-willed to properly assess unsporting technical fouls.

:D

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/roflmao.gif

You realize, don't you, that if you're "one in a million," then there are 1,200 people in China JUST LIKE YOU. ;)

No, they're still uncommitted.

What are they waiting for? A public display of compassion augmented by tears and a cracking voice?

And a display of strong principles. :rolleyes:

No, a poll. Maybe we should have one.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by kblehman

On a similar note, I've done a number of JV games where the coach is fine, but the varsity coach who is sitting on the bench continues to yap and make generic comments. ("It's barn-ball out there," "if they're not gonna call it you just have to play through it," "he's all over him," etc.)

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I understand what you're saying. I think if I had it to do over again I'd have warned the coach that I'd heard enough from the guy on the bench. Being a rookie, it's sometimes difficult for me to fully understand that I'm the one in charge. I wish I could've worked with a firm but diplomatic veteran so I could learn by how he interacted with coaches. But, sadly, our association doesn't really have that sort of mentoring plan.

On a related note, one of the bench comment things I really hate is when, after constantly chirping about every non-call, they sarcastically call out, "thank you" when I call a foul in their favor. That really ticks me off.

I had a varsity girls coach down 35 want a travel right in front of him Tuesday night. He actually said, "C'mon, we're down 35 points." I was standing right there, smiled, and said, "Tied or down 35, that's not a travel." He told me he'd send me the video, and I told him to make it VHS and smiled in his general direction.

I know what you're thinking -- 25 years ago I *might* have had Beta. Truth is, I don't have any VHS players anymore and certainly don't want to watch *that* game again.

I wish I had a nickel for every time that I've heard "It better be in the films." And another nickel for every time that I heard absolutely nothing later on about it <b>not</b> being in the films.

Funny how that works(in both football and basketball).:)

What do the Poles have to do with any of this? Try to stay on topic please!

:mad:

I'd never do this in a varsity game but....about 5 or 6 years ago I was working a weekend tourney (I have no idea what grade level it was). I had a routine oob call on the baseline. One of the fans who had been a bit of a pain and was taking things way too seriously starts yelling, "You got that one wrong! I have it on tape!" as he was filming the game. I nicely told him, "Feel free to go home and watch it right now." He just looked at me like he couldn't believe I said it. :) We didn't hear from him anymore at least.

If people from Poland are Poles, what do you call people from Holland?:confused:

Dutch?

Are you finished? " No, I'm Irish".

Wow !! Considering the responses from Jurrasic and Nevada, who I respect as knowledgable officials (vs my 1.5 years of experience), I will change my opinion on the OP and strive to better my game management skills regarding coaches comments.....

There are times when you can ignore comments and times when you need to deal with them...just understand that one of our responsibilities as an official is to enforce the bench decorum/sportsmanship rules - regardless of the level of ball.

Yup, nip it in the bud. To a certain extent, the lower the level of basketball, the less I'm going to listen to from coaches and players. I think many here would say the same.