Live ball/dead ball...

[Dan_ref]

All this discussion around the "correct procedure" thread
had me thinking of live ball vs dead ball, and this actually
helped me tonight in a "disagreement" with a coach.
Ugly situation, last minute or so, I'm T watching B1 apply
backcourt pressure to A1 under B's basket. My partner is
about midcourt & coach A asks for timeout, which he grants.
A split second after that I whistle A1 for a PC, big push
off. Eesh. So we huddle and decide the TO came before the
foul. I go to coach B and tell him yes, I had the PC but
my partner had coach A's TO first, and since we can't have
a personal foul during a dead ball we got nothing because
A1's actions were not T-worthy. I broke this down by
hitting on live ball/dead ball, I'm sure I would not
have been able to make it this simple if I had not been
thinking in those terms today. BTW, the coach was astounded
that I thought we could not have a personal foul during a
dead ball. Even though I emphasised we can only have a T
during a dead ball I'm sure he thought I was saying you
can't have ANY fouls during a dead ball. I think he
eventually got it 'cause he just walked away after I said
for the fifth time "Only T's during a dead ball, can't have
a personal foul during a dead ball. TO means a dead ball."
To end the story, B lost kinda big, they were not that good,
but coach B was very good because he knew how to push us
just to the brink of a T before backing off. One of the
very few times I left a game with "one in my pocket".

[Bart Tyson]

So, what you are saying is after the TO you did a do-over.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
So, what you are saying is after the TO you did a do-over.

LOL. I wanted to but I couldn't find a Russian judge to
back me up.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
I go to coach B and tell him yes, I had the PC but
my partner had coach A's TO first, and since we can't have
a personal foul during a dead ball we got nothing because
A1's actions were not T-worthy.

I think he
eventually got it 'cause he just walked away after I said
for the fifth time "Only T's during a dead ball, can't have
a personal foul during a dead ball. TO means a dead ball."

It didn't matter in your case, but you can have a personal foul during a dead ball.

It's a favorite FED test question.

[ChuckElias]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bob jenkins

It didn't matter in your case, but you can have a personal foul during a dead ball.

Ok, I'll bite. How? The only thing that comes to mind is a foul during a shot attempt after the horn sounds to end the period. But in that situation, the ball is still alive b/c the try has not ended. How do you have a personal foul during a dead ball? I sense I'm missing something rather large. . .

Chuck

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

It didn't matter in your case, but you can have a personal foul during a dead ball.

It's a favorite FED test question.

Must be why I never get 100% on those things. Come on
Bob, what's the answer? Maybe after an airborne shooter
PC?

[ChuckElias]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Bob, what's the answer? Maybe after an airborne shooter
PC?

I don't think so, Dan, b/c the PC makes the ball dead, right? Can't score the goal, the try has ended, right? So the ball must be dead. So contact after the PC should be ignored unless flagrant or excessive. I'm stumped, to be honest. I hate that!!!!

Chuck

[Bart Tyson]

i know, i know, i know, pick me, pick me.

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I don't think so, Dan, b/c the PC makes the ball dead, right? Can't score the goal, the try has ended, right? So the ball must be dead. So contact after the PC should be ignored unless flagrant or excessive. I'm stumped, to be honest. I hate that!!!!

Chuck

Yep, just throwing something out there to not feel too
dumb (or at least less dumb than usual ). Maybe it's
some weird combination of airborne PC/buzzer, who knows but
I mentioned airborne because Bob said it's on the FED test,
and airborne shooter is a big defference between NCAA men
& NFHS. BTW, get my e-mail?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
i know, i know, i know, pick me, pick me.

Hmmm, let's see...I don't see any hands...let's just
pick someone at random...someone who might know the answer..
hmmm....Tony? Mick? Rut?....no, not Bart....Hey! Bart's
got his hand up after all! OK Bart, what's the answer?
And remember you have a lifeline left...

[Bart Tyson]

Geeee i thought you would never pick me. OK, after a basket we have a dead ball, right? Now the ball is at the disposal to the throwerin, right? Sooo using interpretations from the "Delay of game warning or not" thread, we have a Live ball which is a dead ball, hence a foul on a dead ball which is a live ball so it is a common foul. Did i get it correct?????

[RookieDude]

Hmmmmmmm, Dan_Ref...were you possibly thinking of a PC airborne shooter foul after the ball went in the basket?

The ball would be dead when it went through the basket, then the airborne shooter crashes into the defender which has a legal spot on the floor. (NF)

How's that? (I mean how do ya like me now? )

RD

[Slider]

Let's try this:

Airborne Shooter, Makes basket (ball dead), Is returning to floor, and is fouled by defense.

But, don't listen to me, according to the delay thread, I don't know the rules.

[RookieDude]

Nope Slider...unless the foul by the defender was intentional or flagrant...you ignore it because of the dead ball.

RD

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Geeee i thought you would never pick me. OK, after a basket we have a dead ball, right? Now the ball is at the disposal to the throwerin, right? Sooo using interpretations from the "Delay of game warning or not" thread, we have a Live ball which is a dead ball, hence a foul on a dead ball which is a live ball so it is a common foul. Did i get it correct?????

Ahh Bart, just when we all thought there was hope...
Now go sit in the corner for 1 hour! And you can't go
outside during recess!