Critique anyone
 

Although strongly considering hanging up my stripes, I have a VG game today, my first varsity game, that would be unfair to pull out of. It's broadcasted via the net at I Fan Sports Network at ifan.tv/

I haven't worked a three person game before, only scrimmages, so I'm sure I'll mess up some switches; however, should you have any input on court presence, mechanics, etc. Feel free.

I'll be the big doofus, yes, the one with glasses and a goatee. The game starts at 1:00 PM central time (Clayton HS v. West Salem)...click live events...Clayton game...enter.

Put the bad experience behind you.

Watched for a few minutes, video is poor.

Some comments, and they're JMO:
1) Work on the court as trail, you are working out of bounds.
2) Don't signal TWO shots on obvious shooting foul at spot of foul.
3) Don't go stand next to coach after you report a foul - you are only inviting him to complain.

And the announcer is horrible, in a dry humor kinda way......

Enjoyed watching it though. Thanks

Is it halftime? I got the screen up and it just has a clock counting down. It is on now.

1. Are you going tableside or not? I've seen both on foul calls in the frontcourt.
2. The whistles have no pop. They are long and drawn out too much for my liking.
3. Mechanics are not a concern in this game. When reporting, the mechanics are not crisp and the voice isn't very good. A tall official doesn't look good when they bend over during mechanics.
4. There is zero hustle to the spot to report fouls.
5. I can't tell which official the OP is, but for this level I think all the officials are qualified enough to work. This game is slow though.
6. Pet peeve: when administering the ball for a throw in, it looks goofy for the official to raise their hand prior to giving the player the ball. Things happen and the official ends up standing there with the hand up. Why not just hand/bounce the player the ball and then raising the hand?
7. I just saw a hit mechanic that almost made me vomit! As you can tell mechanics (communication) is important to me.
8. Even with the Internet feed, I can tell there is some serious ball-watching going on.

Why not?

Video isn't great. But I will say, to your credit, you hustle to the reporting area and then you come to a stop before reporting. You partners come across as lazy because they both non-chalantly walk toward to the table AND report without stopping. Very lazy looking.

OOPS! Just saw this but couldn't tell who it was. Tableside T waving off the shot at the end of the 3rd quarter. Who's call is that. NFHS - C or T opposite table. NCAA - C. Never tableside T.

OOPS again! Just as I pat you on the back, you call a foul and walk to the reporting area.

Yep, you did it again. Must be getting tired. :)

In any case, I don't see anything that makes me believe you should hang 'em up. Don't let a bunch of idiots run you off.

I think it looks awkard and its unnecssary communication. JMO.

If it's a shooting foul, you should always indicate the number of shots and the shooter's number before moving to the table. I don't see how it's either awkward or unnecessary.

IOW, I disagree. :)

I guess I am not as good a websurfer as I thought I was. I could not find the game..

http://www.ifan.tv/home.php?cat1=&ca...t3=&article=61

Click on Clayton vs. West Salem.

Thanks... I must have something wrong with my browser since it did not even bring that up... I will go to another computer

I only caught the second half...

The video is very grainy. I can't even make out which one is you. So I'll comment on the crew.

Early in the third quarter there was a backcourt violation that appeared legal. There was no possession in the front court.

Calling officials walked through the players too much when going to report fouls. Excellent job of stopping when you reported however.

Trail officials are positioned too high (C maybe as well) and should step down when a shot is taken.

End of the third quarter, the trail table side blew his whistle and waved his arms. It should have only been the C, who was opposite the table.

Trails are way too high on first of bonus free throws. You need to be able to officiate rebounding action and it's impossible to call (and sell) from half court.

Calling official (in 3-person) should notify the coach when a player is disqualified. You guys switched.

The video plays in Windows Media Player.

Video froze on me at that point but the announcer seemed to want to question it as well.

It's unnecessary because everybody knows it's two shots. I don't have a problem with signaling two shots, unless it's the only information given at the spot. This is a pet peeve of mine. Guys give a quick fist, put up two fingers, yell "Two!" and then run to the table.

The "Two" indication is probably the least important piece of information to be given at the spot of the foul; yet for many officials (high school AND college), it's the ONLY information given at the spot of the foul. :mad:

I'd like to see a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul too, but I have no problem with the official saying and signaling "two." His partners know what's going to happen and can get everything ready. Even though I think mechanics are important, 99% of those in the gym don't care if it's a push or a hold or a block. They just want to know what's going to happen next.

I'm having a hard time telling which one you are. So I'll just comment on the crew as a whole.

Overall, doing a good job. Getting the obvious calls and maintaining control of the game.

As a crew, a little slow to rotate at lead sometimes. Mainly because the lead doesn't get to close-down quickly enough. The lead isn't even starting to rotate sometimes until the pass to the post is already in the air.

Pretty good crew communication. However, the crew didn't communicate that there were six team fouls so nobody knew it was bonus on the 7th foul (that didn't look good).

Very quiet gym doesn't mean the crew needs to be quiet as a mouse too. I'd like to hear more strong voices at the spot of the foul and also at the table.

C and T are bailing out on shots and on loose balls instead of staying put or stepping towards the basket. I think the lead is having to watch way more of the rebounding action than he would have to if our T and C were staying engaged.

A couple of across-the-key calls from the lead (not trusting the center official). Part of that might be the fact that C and T are bailing out so the lead is starting to feel like he has to stay active instead of having a patient whistle.

I don't think an official with his back to the table should ever look back over his shoulder (taking eyes off the players) to see the arrow. The officials facing the table should do that. Pregame that.

The crew is doing a good job of recognizing time-outs and granting them immediately.

Sometimes the C is too high (top-of-the-key or higher). Start at foul-line extended and adjust from there. C should be parallel to the sideline about 90% of the time. C is at a 45-degree angle too much (that closes your vision to the high screens). Sometimes the C is even about the 28' foot line which is where the T should be.

Right before the end of the half, the administering official waited for about 3 subs to come in, one after the other. Part of my pregame is that we don't wait for subs. If they are at the table (or even almost there) fine. However, if we are ready to inbound and the player is just getting off the bench, we aren't waiting for them. That was about a 30-second break while we waited for subs that was unnecessary, IMO.

Well disregard everything I said. I just realized I was watching Medford vs. Sommerset. Dammit!

Including me! I don't care if you call it a hold or a block. The two most important pieces of information (assuming that it's obviously a 2-shot situation) are the fouler's number and the shooter's number. Those things MUST be communicated at the spot of the foul, but are very often overlooked.

There are very few feelings worse than having NO idea who the shooter is. If you force yourself to tell your partner(s) the shooter's number, one of you is much more likely to remember.

Take this for what it's worth....

TO: NCAA Divisions I, II and III Coordinators of Men's Basketball
Officials. December 13th, 2007

FROM: Henry O. Nichols

National Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officiating.

[snip]
Signals. When calling a foul that will result
in 2 free throws for a player fouled while attempting a try for goal
(including continuous motion), the calling official should not
immediately signal "two" with his fingers in the air. If the attempt is
touched close to the basket and the outside officials do not judge goal
tending or basket interference, the two fingers in the air could give
the false impression that the goal counts. In these situations, do not
signal two free throws until it is clear that there is no goal tending
or basket interference.
[snip]

At the high school level, I'm content if my partner's tell me what they have (number of shots or inbounds location). I'll get their shooter for them. I expect more from my college partners.

So you're against it because officials don't give a proper prelim? That's a stupid reason. Where did I say only the number of FTs should be shot? I didn't. I said number of shots and shooter. So WTF are you disagreeing with? :)

I guess there's no reason to give it as you report or when the L steps into the lane either, eh? After all, everybody knows it.

Wait a minute. You aren't disagreeing. I wish you'd make up your damn mind.

:D

I ain't worth a damn.

This is about a NFHS game. It has nothing to do with Hanky-poo.

Who ever said I was against it?!?!?! :confused: Right in the post that you quoted I said, "I don't have a problem with signaling two shots, unless it's the only information given at the spot". I never said I was against it or that it shouldn't be done. I answered YOUR specific question as to why it is unnecessary. I said it was unnecessary because it provides information that everyone already knows (assuming it's obvious that we have a shooting foul). Your panties are in a bunch for no reason.

Exactly, I'm not disagreeing. I never was disagreeing. I wish you'd read my damn posts. :p

You agree but you disagree. That makes no sense.

BTW, I don't wear panties (that's Padgett) and your posts make my head hurt. :p

I disagree with you Z...nobody should "DISREGARD" your critique. It is very good. There are some great pointers in there for officials trying to get better.

Also, IMHO...BBR has some good comments. (And BBR actually gave some POSITIVE reinforcement to the guy.);)

I have to admit though, Z, I don't really have to much of a hang-up on waiting for the subs...if I see that a coach wants to get a player in...I'll usually wait. But, if you have a problem with it, definetly a good idea to pre-game so that the crew can be on the same page.

Don't know what your problem is but I posted it for information only. Officials were free to read it and take what they want from it, if you feel it corrupts your precious NFHS game then ignore it.

The main point is don't signal immediately "two", make sure the is nothing funky (BI or GT) going on with the try first to avoid confusion.

By the way that is same as the NFHS procedure.

You were free to post, "For what it's worth."

I'm not free to post, "It ain't worth a damn,"?

I think I am.

It's an NFHS game. We were talking NFHS mechanics. It doesn't matter what Hank thinks. BTW, he had the worse mechanics of any D-1 official I ever saw work.

If the NFHS mechanic is the same as the NCAA mechanic, then post it for all to read.

In GA we walk, and not through players, and report the foul as we are walking towards the table. We don't stop and report, at least the majority of us don't.

You're more than free to post it "It ain't worth a damn", which I'm also free to add is about as good as your tact.

I merely posted it for information, information that more than likely is not readily available to all on the forum. I believe that is worth something.

Why couldn't you of just done something positive by adding to the conversation and posted the NFHS procedure yourself instead of detracting from it.

Which I might add is found on Page 68 of the NFHS OM.

Thanks, everyone!

I was hoping the game would be on the site for viewing today, but it isn't posted.

Although there's some difference in opinion about a few habits I've picked up in the last year or so, I will put into practice many of the tips you've all offered. I need to re-read the posts to absorb everything, but here are some thins that stick out. (by the way, I'm too competitive to give up the stripes just yet, I have to get better at this first):

1. Stand tall when at the reporting area;
2. Consistently hustle to the reporting area (I watched a game last night where the officials reported fouls from the end lines);
3. Get better at knowing the foul situation and when bonus is about to take effect;
4. Get better at keeping track of the AP rather than relying on the table or the extra whistle I rotate from pocket to pocket; and
5. Raising my hand before I hand or bounce the ball to the thrower (hadn't thought about this before but it makes good sense).

There was also many good tips pertaining to three person mechanics. I'll study those suggestions, too, althouugh I don't think I'll work any more of those this season. I can see why some officials like it over two person.

Again, thanks.

IMO, it isn't always necessary to signal "two" on a shooting foul. If everyone in the building knows it was a shooting foul the communication is worthless. Other times it is needed.
Whether NFHS, NCAA or NBA I find value in doing things for a particular reason instead of just following what others do. Most of the time, we should be able to explain why we do certain things.

I'm still relatively new to reffing
 

And EVERY ref in our association asks that we communicate two/three shots on a shooting foul. The reason: they know whether it is shooting or on the floor and then know to get the players ready during the report of the foul. How else would one communicate this info to their crew?

Be Ready
 

Oh, Oh! Duck. Here it comes.

Bring It!!
 

Yea, whatever, bring it. I got broad shoulders today.

For what is it worth in the CCA Men's Basketball Manual it says on page 77 under Article 2. The Calling Official, it says: "Before reporting the foul to the scorer, it is the responsibility of the calling official to inform the player who is to attempt the free throw(s) and to tell a partner the shooter's number. If two free throws are to be attempted, visually and verbally notify your partners.

For the record I seem to always say "two shots" (one or three when appropriate) and signal two shots when I am calling any shooting foul. I have never been told not to do it that way. I do not see why this is a problem. I guess this is just one of those things that get people all riled up in one area and is not an issue in another.

Peace

I agree with you JRut, if one would follow the manual it wouldn't be an issue. HN's memo was addressing those that signal two immediately at the whistle and go running at the table. I know I've seen it on TV. That can get you in trouble.

Sounds like...
 

"In these situations, do not signal two free throws until it is clear that there is no goal tending or basket interference."

This and other quotes imply that the 2 finger signal may need to be delayed but not dispensed.

You always signal the number of shots to be awarded. Yes, there are different timing issues but it should never be ignored.

I just don't see the value of calling out the fouling player's number on a foul where everyone knows which team has fouled. I know it's in the book. I don't see the value of it OR the preliminary signal. As far as I'm concerned, they could call all of them (holding, pushing, etc.) cheating and eliminate the signal entirely, even the one at the table.

I can stand there and "Red 34 foul, white 22 shooter while making a preliminary signal" or I can make sure I have the only whistle, communicate whether we're shooting, and go to the table while my partners get the shooter to the line. I have the shooter's number as well as the fouler's numbers. Not certain how it helps the game to stay there and make announcements.

Mental Block
 

It's not my age, because I've always had trouble doing this, but whenever I try to remember the numbers of both the "fouler" and the "foulee", I can confuse them on the way to the table, so at the site of the foul, I make eye contact with my partner, verbalize the color and number of the "fouler", and, if shooting, point to the "foulee", and take a quick peak at what the "foulee" looks like. I know it's not by the book, but it's the best I can do.

During the rare instances that I call a double foul, I really have to concentrate on the way to the table to make sure that I don't confuse the two colors and two numbers.

Billy boy..........

We share the same 'disease' Another problem I have if there is a double whistle on a foul, I hold my call and confer with partner, by then I have no idea who fouled. A matter of focus perhaps.

That is a focus issue for sure. I had a similar problem, now I just ask to make sure my partner had the same number that I had on the foul. Just simply slow down and do not be in a big hurry to report the foul. That is what helped me to not lose the number.

Peace