Woman Coaching Boys V

[Gator]

1) I'm not a ref - just a fan who reads the forum because it is instructive and I've a LOT to learn about the game I have come to love.

2) My perception is that there are many posters here who have little or no respect for females playing BB. I would bet that if you did a forum search on "girls" you would find that a significant percent of the time it involved a put down type comment. At least that has been my reaction in reading this forum over the years.

3) I worked in corporate America for long enough to get a pension and lived through the bra burning era and before I retired, the President of my division was a woman. She is now the COO of a multinational corporation. My experience is that women make many of the dumb mistakes males make

In my experience, at some level, many men resent having to share the jobs which used to be all men with females. This seems to have decreased significantly as the guys who grew up seeing women in all sorts of job get to be more numerous. However, the tradition of men in an all male environment tending to be rather free with less than flattering comments about women continues and this forum is often treated as a "male club".

There is a time to let it go and get on with important stuff and there is a time to say ENOUGH! The he said/she said quibbling about how language was used is meaningless. The FACT is that this discussion started because a simple statement about a woman coaching a boy's team resulted in some nasty asides about women. The women here called the posters on it. Some may not understand why the women reacted and try to portray it as the women's problem. That tactic is as old as the hills and as discredited.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Gator

My perception is that there are many posters here who have little or no respect for females playing BB. I would bet that if you did a forum search on "girls" you would find that a significant percent of the time it involved a put down type comment. At least that has been my reaction in reading this forum over the years.

However, the tradition of men in an all male environment tending to be rather free with less than flattering comments about women continues and this forum is often treated as a "male club".

The women here called the posters on it. Some may not understand why the women reacted and try to portray it as the women's problem. That tactic is as old as the hills and as discredited.

Cool. Now you tell me how that you definitively know that the posters making these supposed put-downs are actually males?

Start with me. How do you that I'm really a male? Continue with Scrappy. How do you know that Scrappy is a male also? Did you ever think that it's possible that Scrappy might be a female that thinks that misandry is as bad as misogny(unlike Rita who seems to think that misandry is just fine).

And why is it bad for the males to generally "put down" women, but it's fine for women to generally put down men? Example--->Rita?

My perception is that you don't have a clue what you're talking about, but that ain't gonna stop you from preaching. Carry on.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Cool. Now you tell me how that you definitively know that the posters making these supposed put-downs are actually males?

Start with me. How do you that I'm really a male? Continue with Scrappy. How do you know that Scrappy is a male also? Did you ever think that it's possible that Scrappy might be a female that thinks that misandry is as bad as misogny(unlike Rita who seems to think that misandry is just fine).

And why is it bad for the males to generally "put down" women, but it's fine for women to generally put down men? Example--->Rita?

My perception is that you don't have a clue what you're talking about, but that ain't gonna stop you from preaching. Carry on.

Gator, I dont entirely agree with Jurassic but I do think you've overstated the situation. There's no question that there is some sexism that shows up on this board from time to time, and there's definitely some systemic sexism in our society that's reflected here, but I personally know both Scrappy and Mark Padgett, and I'm becoming more acquainted with Rita recently and I'm pretty sure the whole flap in this thread is a result of some misunderstandings about language (which btw isn't even remotely meaningless).

What Rita said about everyone in our society needing to be confronted about our prejudices and bigotries (we've all got 'em) is true, but sometimes an individual isn't in a position to hear it, or hears a message that was intended for someone else. Especially on an internet venue, it's easy for things to sound more negative than they should. Scrappy, is a person who works hard to be kind and polite (non-offensive) to everyone and felt personally slammed by Rita's criticsm against people who didn't see Padgett's "joke" as offensive. Neither Rita nor Scrappy is backing down from their position about Padgett's joke.

It's really a language issue 100%. It's not going to be resolved in this thread, but my hope is that over time we here on this board will have gotten a little bit of something from this, and go forward with a way to get along better.

Although I know that goes totally against the self-styled pricks who try as hard as possible to be rude and obnoxious universally. At least they're non-discriminating in their offense.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Scrappy, is a person who works hard to be kind and polite (non-offensive) to everyone and felt personally slammed by Rita's criticsm against people who didn't see Padgett's "joke" as offensive. Neither Rita nor Scrappy is backing down from their position about Padgett's joke.

Thanks, Juulie. You know me and you know I don't have a prejudiced bone in my body, especially when it comes to my opinions about women. My "joke" was a parody on how men react to comments about having their masculinity threatened when a remark is made about how they are acting like a woman.

Gee - I guess I just confessed I actually don't resent the French. Maybe I'd better rephrase my previous remarks.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Thanks, Juulie. You know me and you know I don't have a prejudiced bone in my body, especially when it comes to my opinions about women. My "joke" was a parody on how men react to comments about having their masculinity threatened when a remark is made about how they are acting like a woman.

Gee - I guess I just confessed I actually don't resent the French. Maybe I'd better rephrase my previous remarks.

Mark -- I won't swear to your not having a prejudiced bone in your body toward women, but I WILL swear to your having fewer prejudiced bones toward women than almost anyone I know (Scrappy probably has as few as you).

It's always interesting to me to see how each person handles our own prejudices and those of others, those toward us and those toward others. It's a huge subject, and troublesome. But if we didn't have this to be upset about, what would we?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Mark -- I won't swear to your not having a prejudiced bone in your body toward women, but I WILL swear to your having fewer prejudiced bones toward women than almost anyone I know

Gee, Juulie. I'm kind of disappointed at your "lukewarm" endorsement. But I guess that's what I should expect from a girl.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

1) What Rita said about everyone in our society needing to be confronted about our prejudices and bigotries (we've all got 'em) is true, but sometimes an individual isn't in a position to hear it, or hears a message that was intended for someone else. Especially on an internet venue, it's easy for things to sound more negative than they should.

2) Although I know that goes totally against the self-styled pricks who try as hard as possible to be rude and obnoxious universally. At least they're non-discriminating in their offense.

1) Agreed. And sometimes people that are confronted with their prejudices and bigotries absolutely refuse to accept that they have any. That would be Rita in the opinion of some, including Scrappy. Bigotry and prejudice go both ways. Rita made a derogatory remark directed at ALL men. Pot--->kettle--->black.

2) And that's where you're wrong imo. The self-styled rude, obnoxious pricks of the world(aka Dan and probably me also) just might be right the odd time in their take on certain things. Don't confuse the message with the way that the message is being delivered.

JMVHO....

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) . Rita made a derogatory remark directed at ALL men.

2) And that's where you're wrong imo. The self-styled rude, obnoxious pricks of the world(aka Dan and probably me also) just might be right the odd time in their take on certain things.

3) Don't confuse the message with the way that the message is being delivered.

JMVHO....

1) reference, please?

2) I didn't say they were always wrong. I just said that I hope we can "all get along" but I"m not sure everyone really wants to.

3) Sometimes it's pretty hard to divine the message when the delivery is pure invective.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

1) reference, please?

2) I didn't say they were always wrong. I just said that I hope we can "all get along" but I"m not sure everyone really wants to.

3) Sometimes it's pretty hard to divine the message when the delivery is pure invective.

1) Post #18 of this thread- by Rita. That's what brought Scrappy into a state of such high dudgeon. Post #59 where she says that she's only trying to fix ignorance is kind of a hoot too imo.

2) And from some of the other comments in this thread, I was kinda having a few doubts about others wanting to get along too. Btw, disagreeing with someone doesn't mean that they're not getting along.

3) Nope, there really was a message in Dan's post. I got it too. The fact that this thread is still going is a monument to his message.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The fact that this thread is still going is a monument to his message.

Nope. It's a monument to the real-lives of the mods.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Sometimes it's pretty hard to divine the message when the delivery is pure invective.

Which is more or less how this got started.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Did you ever think that it's possible that Scrappy might be a female that thinks that misandry is as bad as misogny(unlike Rita who seems to think that misandry is just fine).

Cool!!! Believe it or not, and I'm not being a smart-a$$ here, I've always wondered what word applied to men the same way misogyny applied to women.

Learnt me something today.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Cool!!! Believe it or not, and I'm not being a smart-a$$ here, I've always wondered what word applied to men the same way misogyny applied to women.

Learnt me something today.

Now learn "misanthropic". That describes how I feel about some coaches. Don't ask what the word is that describes how they feel about me. You couldn't post in on this "family" site anyway.

[Gator]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

How do you that I'm really a male? Continue with Scrappy. How do you know that Scrappy is a male also?

Actually, I made an assumption about regular posters based on what Rainmaker said in her post earlier in this discussion:

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Gotta admit, though, it's nice to have another woman on the board regularly these days, Rita. Mostly, gender doesn't matter, much. But when it does, I do feel kinda lonely. I've been glad you're around.

Oppps - I didn’t factor in the possibility that you or Scrappy might be posting as both “yourselves” and as Rita

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And why is it bad for the males to generally "put down" women, but it's fine for women to generally put down men?

Nothing makes it OK for either to put down the other. One of the reasons I intensely dislike groups such as NOW is their anti male rhetoric.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

My perception is that you don't have a clue what you're talking about, but that ain't gonna stop you from preaching. Carry on.

That’s fair. I offered my perception as you did. Rereading what I wrote I can understand how it came across as preaching when I meant it and tried to state it as MY observation based on MY experience.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

1) I cannot believe that we would even havvng about this subject in the first place. Who cares whether a woman coaches a boys' or men's team and who cares whether a man coaches a girls' or women's team. It does NOT matter.

2) I cannot believe that this thread has gone on for SEVEN (7) that is SEVEN pages.

Happy New Year!!

MTD, Sr.