On the Floor, et al
 

I got to thinking during my most recent game about things officials say that drive me nuts.

Aside from "reach" and "over the back," I mean.

First of all is "play the rim" or "wait til it hits the rim" on free throws. This is probably just me being an anal rules geek, but the fact that they can come in once it hits the backboard negates this phrase.

Then there's, "Coach, feel free to ask us questions during the game, we'll be happy to answer them."

Of course, there's "on the floor." Similar to "play the rim," it communicates a mistaken rule basis, but generally gets the right point across.

Anyone else have any others?

I ask to see if there's something I'm saying that drives other officials nuts.

You mean besides "3-man" and "you guys"? I can't think of much else...

Or man-to-man defense. :D

MTD, Sr.

That one doesn't bother me, because it doesn't claim to refer to me!

Oh, I don't know, Juulie. I hear "man to man" or "pick up your man" all the time in girls' games. Often times, these phrases come from Moms in the stands or female coaches.

Many years ago, some big name college women's coach on tv said, "We play man-to-man defense. Person-to-person is a telephone call."

That narrows it down to about, what three?

Right. That's why they don't bother me. They don't bother the girl players, and they don't refer to the refs, so I don't have any right to worry about it. So I don't.

Fair enough.

You can know in the future that if I say "you guys," I'm not refering to you. :)

Also, if I say "3 man," it's a safe bet both of my partners were male (I do try to refrain from that term, though.)

I was being diplomatic. I don't know who said it, but I think it was a college women's coach.

"I've got..."
"Foul's on..."

"Walk"

"baseline"

:(

That's why we use "y'all;" it's much more PC.:D

I agree with both of these. I will also add:

"That way", "going down", "stay here" - none of these are colors

Then I guess you would be "nuts" before we started our game when I am R.

I don't say "we'll be happy to answer them"...but, I do say "Coach, don't be afraid to let us know if you 'see something'...pause(usually get a grin or the like)...and I continue with "we'll let you know if it is too much."

This is part of the game that I personally enjoy...communicating with Coaches. Managing the game. Letting the Coach know that he has a say...but that ultimatley, the crew has the final word. ;)

I'd much rather my partner communcate to me with "on the floor" rather than "on the ground" as one of my rec leagues partners does....At least if I am in question I now know for sure....

Same with saying "stay here"...I do say that but I say it to the players who may not have their head in the game and see me point and announce the color.

One I hear some guys say is "1 and the bonus"....NO! NO! NO!...it's 1 and 1!

I too fall into the category of not being able to stand officials calling "reach" and "over the back" when reporting...drives me NUTS!

"2 shots, relax on the first"...what if they don't want to relax?

Officials that point to the bench when reporting a foul.

Seeing a Trail park his buns 2 feet inside the division line and 2 feet inside the sideline and never moving.

Why not simply communicate what actually happened? "No shot!" That says it all. No ambiguity. "On the floor" is slang and communicates different things to different people.

For fouls 7, 8 and 9, it actually is one shot and a bonus free throw if they make the first. I agree it's a little "wordier", but it's actually exactly correct (until you hit the 10th foul), and shows some knowledge of basketball history. (A fouled player used to be awarded one free throw on ANY foul. The "and the bonus" was given after the 7th foul of the half.)

Just me, but the "two shots, relax" and a ref I know who says on the second attempt "OK gentleman, time to go to work". Another one......."alright here we go"

I may say "line up" if they are tardy and that's about it other than 1-1 or two shots. Not much for chatter from me.

The pointing to the bench thing -- I'd pass out if a JV official around here DIDN'T do that.

My biggest annoyance is the official that has to report twice. Four-two-four-two. For God's sake, is it 42 or 24? Or 4242?

For free throws:

I picked up "two times" from some partner over the years.

Doesn't matter what level I'm working, I just say "two times," "one and one," or "one" and bounce the ball. I don't need to give instructions as if they're relevant. If they're having trouble lining up, I'll say "red down low" (which really confuses the teams if one's wearing blue and the other white :D).

"Two times guys/ladies" from me as well.

Agree 100% on the giving the number twice.

"That's a..." or "no - no - no" (preceeding a travel, etc.)

And FWIW, "on the floor" is listed in the W CCA manual as an appropriate thing to to when clarification is needed - I personally don't use it, still.

Memories
 

From Scrapper1: "A fouled player used to be awarded one free throw on ANY foul."

I've been officiating for a long time, twenty-seven years, and can recall two major changes in foul shooting; two foul shots for all technical fouls, instead of one foul shot; and the double bonus for the tenth foul of the half, instead of the continuation of the one-and-one until the end of the half.

My long time officiaiting has clouded my memory of what we did, in terms of foul shots, back in my high school days, in the early seventies.

What did we do? Please help. I know that there are some real old timers on this Forum.

man to man, I believe was considered as "HUMAN", not boy or girl...

I'm trying to break the habit of saying "fouls on" and "stay here"...but whats wrong with saying "on the floor"?:confused:

You win. That one is clearly the worst.

Most players begin the act of shooting while they are still in contact with the floor, so saying "on the floor" doesn't distinguish whether the player was in act of shooting or not. It is a pointless comment which communicates no real information.
Think about these two things:

What if a player takes a set shot instead of a jump shot?

If a player jumps into the air and then is fouled while passing the ball, do you say "in the air?" :D


It doesn't matter where the player was. It only matters what he was doing.

We know...we know :rolleyes:

One she shows me she's not part of mankind, I'll stop saying 3-man. Until then....

When I'm asked by a coach why his player isn't getting free throws after he's fouled "on the floor coach" always ends the discussion. To me that slang is worth using.

Here's one - you walk into the FT lane, hold up 2 fingers and shout "TWO" then as you're waiting for the first FT the guy standing next to you turns his head and says "how many ref?" While it doesn't exactly drive me nuts it continues to amaze me how often this happens at every level.

I disagree that it communcates no real info...

Player who gets bumped while driving, you blast the wistle, as soon as the bump/whistle occurs he throws up a shot that goes in...looks like a continuation. Coach and player both want to know why they are not shooting.

I get that you can say NO SHOT or offer explanation BEFORE THE SHOT but I'm still ok with ON THE FLOOR in this case...especially if I am in question as to when my partner actually saw the foul take place and when he whistled the foul.

Well, Nevadaref pretty clearly pointed out exactly WHY it communicates no real info. It is simply slang that is announcer-speak for "no shot". So just say, "no shot".

Sigh. But "on the floor" is completely irrelevant to the question of whether free throws will be awarded, regardless of when he whistled the foul.

Look, it's not going to matter to me one bit whether you say "on the floor" or "no shot". My one piece of advice, don't use "on the floor" at camp.

If it is slang that is equivalent to "no shot" for most of the community then why not use it? "On the floor" while not precise communicates exactly the message you intend to those not as familiar with the rules as you.

btw...are you opposed to saying you googled something when you really should say you performed a web search?

The first time I heard someone say they "googled", I thought they were talking about being a baby. When I was a baby, I googled all the time. Sometimes, depending on what happened that day, I still do. :p

Speaking of babies - has everyone seen that young kid that does the evil look... and then laughs? It's on YouTube.

I've watched that clip 50 times and I still fall off my seat laughing.

You'll go blind if you keep at it...

In a wreck game I was working between the Sopranos and one of the other "families", a player was dribbling and got shot multiple times from someone in the stands. His body was scattered in a bloody mess all over the court. I looked down at it and declared "on the floor". Obviously, I couldn't rule "before the shot". BTW - Tony hit a jumper at the horn to win, 2-0.

Damn, gotta take those holiday meds.

I have to completely agree with Chuck on this. It might be a term that everyone truly understands, but do not use it at any camp if you want to look like you do not know what you are doing.

Peace

Yup, you're right. I'll start using it, along with "over the back" on rebounding fouls. After all, "over the back" communicates exactly the message I intend to those not as familiar with the rules as I am. Good tip, thanks. ;)

I'm not. But I've heard that within the Google company, employees are forbidden from using the company name in that manner. The owners are afraid that using "google" as a verb will essentially cause it to lose its unique meaning as the "Google company". This is what happened with "aspirin", which used to be a unique brand name.

I didn't really mean to get drawn into this conversation. I just stopped by to say Merry Christmas to everybody. I'll go back under my bridge now. :)

That is one of my personal worst habits. I say it at least 2-3 times a game and wanna slap myself everytime I say it...the game is not about me! Gotta focus more on that one.

Although the rules/case/mechanics books use specific terminology, if the communication is clear, then I don't have much problem with trite or not-quite-exact terminology. Some, such as "reach" or "over-the-back", need to be avoided because they perpetuate myths/misunderstandings of the rules. I've had good partners who I respected use them in reporting fouls because they said it let the coaches know what the foul was...arrrgggghhhhh.

But terms like "on the floor" or "baseline" or even something as inane as "relax on the first shot" communicate a clear message to players, partners, and coaches. For example, I would certainly prefer my partner clearly state a foul occured "on the floor" then not comunicate anything at all (whether verbal or non-verbal), leaving me (and my other partner) wondering what we're to do next. This is not to say I necessarily condone such terminology when, as several people have pointed out, "no shot" correctly communicates the same thing. But I mostly want to know what the situation is as quickly as possible. And Chuck & JRut are right...be precise and correct at camp.

Don't know if you say or do any of these, Snaqs, but...

- Referees during pre-games with captains who feel a need to go over specific rules ("Make sure your shorts are pulled up and your shirt tucked in or we won't let you come in" seems to be very popular). I can understand briefly going over rules changes or even POEs before the first 3-4 games of the season, but otherwise...

- Referees during pre-games with captains who give specific instructions, about rough play or such, followed with some variation of "If you do this here's the specific action we'll take"... and then magnify the gaffe by not taking the threatened action the first time it happens in the game

- Umpires during pre-games who feel a need to add to whatever the R said, especially if it's to go over a specific rule or instruction...&$^%@

- Referees who step into the center circle for the opening tip and announce team colors while pointing in the appropriate direction each team will go...why?

- Officials who feel the need to come together and chat during every timeout or between 1/2 and 3/4 quarters, whether or not there is good reason to...just be professional and go to your assigned spot on the floor unless there is a good reason to come (and stay) together

- Lead officials in 3-man (sorry Rainmaker) who are loathe to rotate...even if the ball and 6-8 players are on the other side of the floor and have been there for several seconds with nothing to indicate the ball will come back anytime soon if at all

- Trail in 3-man who calls "3 Seconds"...unless of the course the Lead hasn't rotated to the new ball side and the Trail now has nothing better to officiate

Whew.......that felt good, Doctor.

And I imagine next time you're asked if the foul was on the floor you'll give your standard 10 minute lecture on how we should all avoid using slang instead of just saying "yes".

More good advice, thanks

It's true, brand name originally owned by Bayer. It's why the waiter tells you no coke pepsi when you order the wrong one. Other examples are kleenex, scotch tape, jello, band aid, velcro. There's one more that you probably hear a lot: "hey ref! you suck like a hoover!!" Make sure you reach in first to make sure there aren't any snakes on the floor.

After I do this, I say good luck, too.

If this really bothers you, you're a bit too then-thi-tive.

You're right, it doesn't really bother me...just seems uneccessary.

Saying "Good luck" seems harmless enough as well...I usually say it to coaches/captains before games as well. But I've had partners over the years who refuse to say "good luck" to coaches because they believe the coach could imply they're favoring the other team and the chance for a fair game is therefore unlikely. I've personally never actually heard a coach say that, but coaches being coaches, you just never know.

I was going to say the same thing. Apparently most people don't perceive "on the floor" as also perpetuating a myth of the game. Unfortunate. :(

I'll add officials who bounce the ball across the lane to a thrower because they are too lazy to move and justify it as saving steps for the crew. :mad:

Here's Why ...
 

From Corndog89: "Referees who step into the center circle for the opening tip and announce team colors while pointing in the appropriate direction each team will go...why?"

This is the way that I double check that we're going the correct way. Before I toss, I look to my left at the "White" bench, make sure that a "White" jumper is standing to my left and point to my right and say "White". Then I look to my right at the "Red" bench, make sure that a "Red" jumper is standing to my right, and point to my left and say "Red". By doing this in every game that I'm the referee, now the "tosser" with the new mechanics, I've never, since the new rule designated baskets for each team, had the players start the game in the wrong direction because I let them line up facing the wrong direction. Yet in the same number of years, as the umpire, or "nontoser" with the new mechanics, I have, on many occassions, prevented my partner, the refreee, or "tosser", from starting the players in the wrong direction.

From Corndog89: "I've had partners over the years who refuse to say "good luck" to coaches because they believe the coach could imply they're favoring the other team and the chance for a fair game is therefore unlikely. I've personally never actually heard a coach say that, but coaches being coaches, you just never know"

I've always struggled with this. If you're saying "Good Luck" to both teams, doesn't the "Good Luck" cancel out? So over the past few years, I've been saying "Have Fun" to players, and, if I find it necessary to say something to the coaches, I say "Have a great game". Odd, and nit-picking, I know, but it makes me feel comfortable.

Or they do not care. Honestly, who really cares what others say?

Peace

Nope. I mention sportsmanship, tell them to play nice, and ask the U if he/she has anything to add.
Nope. I hate boxing myself into a corner on anything.
I consider this question, "Adam, do you have anything to add?" to be a courtesy question and always reply in the negative. I've noticed the ones who do have something to add are either a) newer officials or b) 30+ year guys who honestly don't think I addressed everything I needed to.
[QUOTE=Corndog89]
- Referees who step into the center circle for the opening tip and announce team colors while pointing in the appropriate direction each team will go...why?[/qutoe]I've stopped doing this, but it doesn't annoy me. This year I don't say anything. Tweet, drop the whistle, step, toss. That's all.
I'm working on adhering to timeout and intermission positioning this year. It just looks sloppy to be wandering around like you're not sure of yourself.
Officials with less 3-whistle experience are hesitant to this. What gets me is the guy who goes half-way across and can't figure out if he wants to finish. Again, though, this tends to be the one with less experience at three-official mechanics.
I'd add the lead who whistles the OOB violation when the ball hits the high supports above the backboard.

Amen!

Okay, I can see that...but can't you just look and check without verbalizing it?

I've been saying "Let's have fun" more and more the last 3-4 years.