Defender verbal during play.
 

Situation: Offensive player has ball, dribbling or not, defender guarding player continues yelling "ball, ball, ball, ball . . . . . ." or "Da, da, da . . . ."

I stop play, and explain to both coaches that I view that type of behavior as un-sportsman like and doesn’t lend itself for the good of the game. I compared it to behavior that is allowed during free throw attempts. Communication, like " Ball" or "Switch" or "Pick" will be tolerated. Give both teams warning, next occurrence will result in Technical. One coach got very hot that he had not heard of this before. I told coach that he has the option of complying and has been warned without penalty.

I cannot find anything specific, and classify this under: 2005-2006 Rule Book Rule 10, Sec 3, Art 7 for Unsporting foul. Including but the limited to . . . . . .

I would like some guidance on this please.

I have absolutely no problem with the defender *constantly yelling" with unobjectionable verbiage.
Perhaps your are tending to be an overly officious official ? :)

wiref8:

You will not find anything in the rules regarding this situation because there is not rule against it. You weren't just be overly officious, you were trying to impose a rule that does not exist. Remember, you have nothing until you have something and you had nothing.

MTD, Sr.

Thanks for the feeback.
 

Thanks for the feedback. I just found the behavior in this situation out of the ordinary(never had seen such a persistent effort by a defender) in all the games I have officiated.

I am glad to get contrary feedback, I received positive reinforcement in the manner I handled the situation from other officials in the tournament that I know. Maybe it is a matter of standing up for each other. I am glad that I asked.

Thanks for the piece of humble pie.

Nothing the matter with it.....

Don't be a plumber.

In response to never having seen this or out of the ordinary!

Perhaps if you had played basketball at some level you would know this is something that is taught to do and has been practice for many, many years.

And exactly how did this add to the thread?

Not sure ... but, found it quite odd that someone had never seen this or heard of it before. It's one of the first things you are taught as a player.

Until recently, I've never heard of anything but girls' teams doing it. Is that odd? I have heard about communication on defense that may require an occasional, "Ball" now and then.

That is odd ... did you play basketball growing up (fair question)? If so, you surely would have encountered this somewhere along the way.

Just for the record, I talked (though, not yelling) to my guy through the entire game in the mid-60s. It felt necessary for me to advise him what to do with the ball and when he he was getting into some deep doo-doo. :cool:

I'm from Indiana, any other questions?

Yeah, you talked, but did you constantly say, "Ball, ball, ball?" I talked too (much) when I played. I'm still willing to tell anyone who will listen that on most nights I'm the best 3-point shooter in the gym. No, seriously!

Ha, sometimes, but not often! My constant repeats were more likely "Shoot it, shoot it, shoot it." :)

That was my first thought when I read the OP (must have been a girls game).

Mregor

You must have been from Northern Indiana.

Here's some - it's not golf.

I saw it a few times in Iowa. Here in Colorado, I haven't seen it at all. So, a player/ref growing up in this particular area could easily go without seeing it, even over a period of years. I have a feeling this particular tactic is falling out of favor with coaches because it's not really effective and wastes a lot of wind on the defensive end.

When I first started, 3 years ago, the ladies did it ALOT. So far this year only one girl did it for about 10 seconds. Her teammate told her to be quiet cause she missed the coach yelling out a defensive scheme .

I think your da, da, da is actually dead, dead, dead (unless your doing a two year old travel team) meaning a dead ball for dribbler. This alerts the defense to tighten up and put pressure on passing lanes and in some instances coach will yell dead to ensure defender is on ball looking for a five count.

Pretty routine basic stuff in my area.

Heh, I posted on this what, a week ago?

I've only worked 3 nights of JH games, but it seems to be pretty constant among only the girl's teams as well. Annoying as hell. I liken it to "chatter" in baseball, which has driven me nuts for years, but is some of the pointless crap you deal with in these games.

Well for my two cents, wouldn't bother me, in fact I would probably have to chuckle the first time the defender can't hear her teammate call out a screen and she Da' Da's her face right into a shoulder! :eek:

I've seen this several times over the yrs. Mostly the "Ball, Ball, Ball" routine. Very annoying! I always wanted to go over to the coach and ask them if they ever saw it in college or the pros? And why do they teach or encourage it - other than to throw th other team off and be darn annoying? :confused:

every girls team in our area says "ball ball ball," over and over when defending a player...

You have my condolences.

lol ... thanks.

Actually it doesn't bother me. I've coached girls around here before and I actually taught it as well. It's not a big deal to me or most refs around here.

I don't think I've ever heard a complaint about this before today :)

I played HS ball in the '80s. The "ball ball ball" thing was non-existent then, even on the girls side. I've been reffing since the early '90s and it wasn't even used very much at that point. It's really only become prevalent over the last 10 years around here.

Northern, Southern it doesn't matter - I'm from Indiana and that is the only thing that matters concerning your question. Did you play growing up and where are you from?

We generally played baseball, football and basketball in Michigan.

My college coach taught the following:
"Ball" - Ball is loose or knocked loose.
"Tight" called repeatedly - Ball handler has no dribble now.
"Shot" - Box out and go for the rebound.

Hearing "Ball," "dead," "tight," etc. all game may be annoying, but to call it unsporting is a bit of a stretch, IMO.

Annoying
 

From Grunewar: "Very annoying!"

Agreed. Against the rules? I don't think so, unless you really want to bend the rules regarding sportmanship, and that's going to be a tough sell.

Do Forum members have similar thoughts on players who "yell" at the player who beat them, and is about to make an open layup. They're too far behind to block the ball, or to foul, so they "yell", trying to disconcert the shooter.

My thought is that is a character problem, better dealt with by parents and maybe even coaches.

Lots of times, kids (usually girls) yell ball, ball, ball, etc. when I'm getting ready to hand the ball to the inbounder. When that happens, I stop, look at the ball, look at the kid and say, "Yes, you're right. It is a ball." That usually shuts them up. Sometimes, they even laugh.

When I hear boys yelling it, I tell them, "only girls say that". That always shuts them up.

I played from 4th grade through hs and was never taught to constantly yell "ball, ball ball!" for the whole time that somebody had the ball...we were told to yell "ball" once when the player we were defending received the ball so everyone knew we were on the ball...although we were taught to yell "UP UP UP UP" once a dribble was picked up....but to yell something CONSTANTLY, no we were never taught that...it's not like this is a universally accepted method of teaching defense, I'm not all that suprised if OP had never seen it....

I'm from NJ were we were taught to play defense with our feet, not our mouths.

I guess I might have misunderstood the OP a bit. The word constantly throws a wrench in things. Of coursenot constantly, but initially ... surprised to hear if nobody has never heard this concept at all.

I was the guy...

MIIIIIIIIIIIISS!!!

Just curious...does it seem like constantly yelling "ball, ball, ball..." is an effective strategy? I could see it being unnerving for grade school-age players but I would think that it would lose it's affect after players gain some experience.

I thought you guys stuck to Hockey in "da yoopee, eh?"

It's not supposed to be unnerving. It's supposed to let defensive teammates know where the ball is when they are looking away.

My personal opinion is that's a technical foul, but I doubt that there is widespread agreement upon that.

You are quite correct with regards to your doubts. There is very little agreement amongst officials(at least those that I have met) with your personal opinion. The general consensus seems to be that it's OOO-ish.

To me it is "behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play."

I don't see how a player yelling, "Look out!" at an opponent going in for an uncontested layup is sporting behavior.

That's just not acceptable at the HS level.

But it's generally accepted, so I guess it is acceptable.

I don't believe that making a kid think that he is going to get hurt is ever an acceptable tactic. :(

I've never heard them yell that, so I can't say I disagree with you. Usually I hear them yell "shot."

I agree that it is unsporting, but I've been quite clearly told by higher ups to let it go.

If you feel that it is unsporting, then you have rulebook backing to call a technical foul. Feel free to do so.

Have the courage of your convictions.

Gratuitous and mandatory Chuck Elias reference aside, what "higher-ups"? Association, state, IABBO?

Which is it? Gratuitous or mandatory? Kinda like "intentional flagrant." It can't be both.

Shut up.

...or...

Thank you.

HS and NCAA interpreters.

So...what if you were to become the HS interpreter. Then what? :D

I guess that since there is a rule about it, that chatter doesn't happen only in girls' Fed. :)

Scrappy is an high school interpreter, I believe.

The issue, I guess, is whether it is wise to let a personal philosophy over-ride what is commonly called the "expected" call.

This is exactly correct. I personally feel that the yelling thing should be a T. Seems clearly unsporting to me. But the people that I work for and who teach me say that it is accepted -- along the lines of the people here who say "it's not golf" -- and not to make myself the focal point by calling something that nobody else does.

So kinda like stare decisis? :D

I know Scrapper's an interpreter; I'm just yankin' his chain a bit. ;)