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-   -   OK.. first highschool tonight. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/40317-ok-first-highschool-tonight.html)

Bearfanmike20 Thu Dec 13, 2007 09:00am

OK.. first highschool tonight.
 
Freshmen... 2 games... I cant wait.

Goals for tonight.

1. Keep my head up.
2. Make the right call even if it means correcting myself.
3. Anticipate better.

Jurassic Referee Thu Dec 13, 2007 09:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Goals for tonight.

3. Anticipate better.

Nuh-huh.

Never, ever anticipate anything. Wait....and call what <b>happens</b>.

IREFU2 Thu Dec 13, 2007 09:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Freshmen... 2 games... I cant wait.

Goals for tonight.

1. Keep my head up.
2. Make the right call even if it means correcting myself.
3. Anticipate better.

What are you anticipating, Fouls or plays?

Bearfanmike20 Thu Dec 13, 2007 09:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IREFU2
What are you anticipating, Fouls or plays?

A senior official told me that you should anticipate clean play that way if see somthing that is not clean you can call it.

ex. You are lead. A1 drives to the basket. You see A2 coming over to set a pick. If you anticipate a clean pick, then when you see a moving screen or anything other then a clean pick, or if you see a clean pick but B1 bulls right through it you are more prepared to call the foul instead of just blankly staring at what you are seeing.

Does that make sense??

Nevadaref Thu Dec 13, 2007 09:16am

Anticipate the action and get into a good position to observe it. Then make a nice deliberate decision. Have patience and let it unfold in front of you.

Nevadaref Thu Dec 13, 2007 09:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
A senior official told me that you should anticipate clean play that way if see somthing that is not clean you can call it.

ex. You are lead. A1 drives to the basket. You see A2 coming over to set a pick. If you anticipate a clean pick, then when you see a moving screen or anything other then a clean pick, or if you see a clean pick but B1 bulls right through it you are more prepared to call the foul instead of just blankly staring at what you are seeing.

Does that make sense??

It makes very good sense. An official who worked in the elite 8 this past season told me the same thing at camp this summer only the example that he used was making a clean block on a shot attempt.

It has to do with your frame of mind when officiating. If you recognize what action is taking place, you can make better decisions. You also won't be apt to penalize something that isn't there.

IREFU2 Thu Dec 13, 2007 09:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
A senior official told me that you should anticipate clean play that way if see somthing that is not clean you can call it.

ex. You are lead. A1 drives to the basket. You see A2 coming over to set a pick. If you anticipate a clean pick, then when you see a moving screen or anything other then a clean pick, or if you see a clean pick but B1 bulls right through it you are more prepared to call the foul instead of just blankly staring at what you are seeing.

Does that make sense??

Yep, makes sense. Never anticipate fouls.

canuckref Thu Dec 13, 2007 09:25am

All the best of luck tonight. I remember my first high school game: on the drive there my palms were sweating and I had butterflies. I couldn't believe how nervous I was, as i am not usually the anxious type.

Give yourself plenty of time to get there early, being too early is better than the alternative.
Pick a violation/foul your not 100% about and re-read the book/casebook, then discuss it pre-game with partner, ask questions.
Tell your partner your a rookie and want feedback on your game, were always learning. Thank your parnter(s) post game for helping a rookie in his first hs game, they'll appreciate it. If it was positive partnering tell them you look forward to working with them again.

Its a beautiful game (apologies to soccer) so have fun.

JugglingReferee Thu Dec 13, 2007 09:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Nuh-huh.

Never, ever anticipate anything. Wait....and call what happens.

Disagree.

When you mention anticipate, you mentioned call. I take that as calling violations and fouls. There are many more things to be aware of than violations and fouls.

I anticipate all the way - especially when a more skilled defender is guarding a weaker opponent. I know that a steal might be coming. Or if I see a missed switch by the defense, I know they'll be an offensive cutter into the key and an entry pass.

Another example: coach B is getting drained from the get-go. Losing 8-0. You're the new L after A's 4th basket. What do I do? I'm looking right at B coach for a second. I know the TO request is coming. IMHO, a quality official will grab that TO request before the pass is released from B's endline.

In addition, anticipating clean play is a very good suggestion, in my opinion. I use that same approach in football.

It's about officiating smarter, not harder.

Scrapper1 Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
when a more skilled defender is guarding a weaker opponent. I know that a steal might be coming. Or if I see a missed switch by the defense, I know they'll be an offensive cutter into the key and an entry pass.

Another example: coach B is getting drained from the get-go. Losing 8-0. You're the new L after A's 4th basket. What do I do? I'm looking right at B coach for a second. I know the TO request is coming.

Another example is when the big man is being fronted in the low post. Anticipate the lob pass, right? What might happen? Big man might push off to catch the pass. Secondary defender might flash across to help with backside defense.

Very simple example: 2-on-1 fast break. You better anticipate a block/charge situation and REFEREE THE DEFENDER. If you wait for the contact to make your decision, you'll be guessing.

Anticipate the play, not the call.

rainmaker Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:11am

Mike -- on your list of goals you forgot the most important one:

Have Fun!

Bearfanmike20 Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
Mike -- on your list of goals you forgot the most important one:

Have Fun!

Funny you should mention that cause my partner in my last game kept saying that I dont look like I'm having fun.

Thats not the case. I just am sooooo focused that I look very serious.

kbilla Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Funny you should mention that cause my partner in my last game kept saying that I dont look like I'm having fun.

Thats not the case. I just am sooooo focused that I look very serious.

So how did it go?

rainmaker Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Funny you should mention that cause my partner in my last game kept saying that I dont look like I'm having fun.

Thats not the case. I just am sooooo focused that I look very serious.

Yup. That's okay. First HAVE FUN, and eventually it'll show.

Or try this: grip your whistle with your teeth and keep your lips parted untill you need to blow the whistle. That way it gives a little more of a smile look. (Although it's hard on the whistle)

Also, look at your partner more -- more eye contact. That also gives your face a more open look.

rainmaker Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbilla
So how did it go?

uh, kb, it's only been an hour and a half since he posted it! When he said tonight, he meant, wait for it.....

Tonight!!

Bearfanmike20 Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbilla
So how did it go?


My last game went better. I am anxious to do these 2 highschool games tonight.

Adam Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
Yup. That's okay. First HAVE FUN, and eventually it'll show.

Or try this: grip your whistle with your teeth and keep your lips parted untill you need to blow the whistle. That way it gives a little more of a smile look. (Although it's hard on the whistle)

Make sure you take plenty of chapstick, then, and drink plenty of water before hand.

rainmaker Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Make sure you take plenty of chapstick, then, and drink plenty of water before hand.

Yup, I do that too. chapstick, extra water, extra whistles. It's a high price to pay for looking good!:D

kbilla Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
uh, kb, it's only been an hour and a half since he posted it! When he said tonight, he meant, wait for it.....

Tonight!!

Whoops my bad, I got a little excited for him!:D

Dan_ref Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Or try this: grip your whistle with your teeth and keep your lips parted untill you need to blow the whistle. That way it gives a little more of a smile look. (Although it's hard on the whistle)

Bearfan, you probably shouldn't do this. Biting the whistle will make you look tense. Nothing more disturbing than a tense looking smiling guy with spittle running down his chin. If anything you'll want to have a cool, detached look about you. Kinda like Violet Palmer.

http://www.womensportswire.com/palmer.jpg

Also it won't be fun if you're biting the whistle and get smacked in the face suddenly with a ball or something. It could happen.

Bearfanmike20 Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Bearfan, you probably shouldn't do this. Biting the whistle will make you look tense. Nothing more disturbing than a tense looking smiling guy with spittle running down his chin. If anything you'll want to have a cool, detached look about you. Kinda like Violet Palmer.

http://www.womensportswire.com/palmer.jpg

Also it won't be fun if you're biting the whistle and get smacked in the face suddenly with a ball or something. It could happen.


LOL.... toche'

Back In The Saddle Thu Dec 13, 2007 02:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Funny you should mention that cause my partner in my last game kept saying that I dont look like I'm having fun.

Thats not the case. I just am sooooo focused that I look very serious.

I had the same problem when I started. Many new guys do. There's just sooooo much to take in. But you've got to find a way to make yourself relax at appropriate times (like time outs, quarter breaks, etc.). Maybe take a couple of deep breaths, make a conscious effort to smile. If you stay wound tight the entire time, you can end up shutting down a bit and losing focus at the end.

rainmaker Thu Dec 13, 2007 02:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Bearfan, you probably shouldn't do this. Biting the whistle will make you look tense.

It might look less tense than gripping the whistle tensely with lips. I mean, I'm pretty much tense from top to toe the whole game, it's just a question of which tense looks less unpleasant. I guess Mike will have to decide what works for him.

Adam Thu Dec 13, 2007 02:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
It might look less tense than gripping the whistle tensely with lips. I mean, I'm pretty much tense from top to toe the whole game, it's just a question of which tense looks less unpleasant. I guess Mike will have to decide what works for him.

Or, if he's married, he can ask the wife for her opinion. Just remind her the stripes are mandatory.

rainmaker Thu Dec 13, 2007 02:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Or, if he's married, he can ask the wife for her opinion. Just remind her the stripes are mandatory.

....and black socks and shoes.:D

Rich Thu Dec 13, 2007 02:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Freshmen... 2 games... I cant wait.

Goals for tonight.

1. Keep my head up.
2. Make the right call even if it means correcting myself.
3. Anticipate better.

Good luck. Tonight's my first game in 11 months. Feels like forever, though.

Bearfanmike20 Thu Dec 13, 2007 02:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Or, if he's married, he can ask the wife for her opinion. Just remind her the stripes are mandatory.

Ya.. my wife laughed at me the first time she saw me in uniform.

Adam Thu Dec 13, 2007 02:58pm

She'll get used to it. This year's checks so far have pretty well covered Christmas for the kids, plus dinner at the newly opened Famous Dave's BBQ. That's how my wife got used to it. ;)

Rich Thu Dec 13, 2007 03:15pm

Ah, the NB 888 shoes just arrived along with my first-ever Dolfin whistle. Bring it on.

My wife is so used to me in the stripes, she just rolls her eyes. However, my daughter used to be frightened by the uniforms until this past football season when she realized "that's just Daddy."

jdw3018 Thu Dec 13, 2007 03:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN
Ah, the NB 888 shoes just arrived along with my first-ever Dolfin whistle.

I used the Dolfin for the first time Tuesday night. I really like the sound, but I'm a chomper and have always used the CMG, so I don't know if I'll keep using the Dolfin or not...

tomegun Thu Dec 13, 2007 06:04pm

BearFan, I have really been giving you the business, but I seriously wish you the best. It takes a twisted soul to get on the court, put themselves on the spot and do what we do. Whether it be for the love of the game, exercise or making a buck, this is not for the faint of heart.
You may not get this until you finish tonight, but I hope all went well and you didn't screw things up royally. :D Jokes, Jokes! It probably went by so fast you will not remember it.

BillyMac Thu Dec 13, 2007 07:41pm

Good To Remember
 
From Scrapper1: "Anticipate the play, not the call."

That's what we're taught on our board.

Bearfanmike20 Fri Dec 14, 2007 08:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun
BearFan, I have really been giving you the business, but I seriously wish you the best. It takes a twisted soul to get on the court, put themselves on the spot and do what we do. Whether it be for the love of the game, exercise or making a buck, this is not for the faint of heart.
You may not get this until you finish tonight, but I hope all went well and you didn't screw things up royally. :D Jokes, Jokes! It probably went by so fast you will not remember it.

Funny you should mention fast....

I knew that the speed from MS to HS would be faster.. but didn't realize how fast... It took me almost the whole first game to adjust.

Mistakes...

1. I kept signaling the wrong direction for pos. Not sure why.. I made sure I called out the right color but for some reason I'd signal the wrong way.

2. Called a block foul, but forgot to actually signal the block.

3. Missed a whistle on an out of bounds play. Just didn't blow it. Dont know why.

Other then that.. It was ok. I'm still having trouble distiguishing exacly if I should or shouldn't call a foul. I feel like I left alot of fouls out there. The ratio of fouls called between me and my partner was about 4 to 1 in his favor. Id like to think that people were just not fouling in my area, but I dont think that is the case.

All in all. A good learning experience and alot of things I still need to work on.

kbilla Fri Dec 14, 2007 09:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Funny you should mention fast....

I knew that the speed from MS to HS would be faster.. but didn't realize how fast... It took me almost the whole first game to adjust.

Mistakes...

1. I kept signaling the wrong direction for pos. Not sure why.. I made sure I called out the right color but for some reason I'd signal the wrong way.

2. Called a block foul, but forgot to actually signal the block.


3. Missed a whistle on an out of bounds play. Just didn't blow it. Dont know why.


Other then that.. It was ok. I'm still having trouble distiguishing exacly if I should or shouldn't call a foul. I feel like I left alot of fouls out there. The ratio of fouls called between me and my partner was about 4 to 1 in his favor. Id like to think that people were just not fouling in my area, but I dont think that is the case.


All in all. A good learning experience and alot of things I still need to work on.

2. This is not a huge deal, I have seen several high level officials who NEVER give a preliminary signal.

3. At least it stayed dry that trip:p

Assuming you were switching every time at least there was consistency with the foul calls...just takes time, no substitute for seeing situation after situation at game speed...

kblehman Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
I knew that the speed from MS to HS would be faster.. but didn't realize how fast... It took me almost the whole first game to adjust.

Bearfan, I know what you're saying. I just started doing AAU HS level in the last few months and the 2 hardest things for me to adjust to was the speed and the physical play underneath. Oh, and the fact that they play 2-ft off the floor, too.

I remember when my first block/charge occurred (it was a charge), I had no idea how to do the mechanics for the call because I never had to make a charge call at MS level and below. I must've looked like a marionette trying to figure out that first charge signal, lol.

I still haven't done any actual HS varsity games (why put up with more aggravation and get home 2-3 hrs later for $5?) but I think I can relate. A hearty congrats on your first HS game.

rainmaker Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by kblehman
(why put up with more aggravation and get home 2-3 hrs later for $5?)

I"ll tell you why: IT'S MORE FUN!!

Don't you think so, Mike?

Bearfanmike20 Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
I"ll tell you why: IT'S MORE FUN!!

Don't you think so, Mike?

More exercise thats for sure.

I think both are fun in their own way. Much better Basketball play on the hs level obviously but I think no matter how high up I get.. I think I will make sure I still do some ms games.

kblehman Fri Dec 14, 2007 01:13pm

Originally Posted by kblehman
(why put up with more aggravation and get home 2-3 hrs later for $5?)
Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
I"ll tell you why: IT'S MORE FUN!!

I remember when I first started and I was doing kids' tournaments and MS games. I was talking with a couple of buddies who'd been officiating for years and I mentioned that I didn't really care if I ever do varsity. They both replied, "yes you do" and claimed that JV and varsity games are easier to call. Of course, being a rookie I didn't know what they meant at the time, but now that I've worked up to the JV level I completely understand.

The kids' games are like soccer scrums, all the action takes place right around the key, making it difficult to clearly spot violations and fouls (unless you're a parent in that 5th row.) In a HS game the floor is spread out more, plus they can actually control the ball.

So I understand what you're saying, rainmaker. But my daughter is a point guard on her freshman team (MI AAU runner-up last year, if I may gloat!), which means I'm watching her play twice a week and officiating the other 3 nights. For now I'd rather get home to my family by 8pm than roll in at 10:30. Besides, my 3-man experience is limited to 2 clinics and 2 tournaments.

I figure if I do my best to get better at the Fr and JV level and someone eventually sees that I'm ready for varsity, they'll let me know. Otherwise, I'm in no hurry.

tomegun Fri Dec 14, 2007 05:35pm

Part of officiating should be integrity and I've seen this many times. Assume the following:

1. An official wants to get better
2. An official is ready to do high school varsity
3. An official is given the choice between a varsity game and a middle school game - the official chooses the varsity game.

If those three things were true for you then yes, you do want to do higher level basketball. Period. The end. It is finished. Stop saying otherwise.

Juulie is right, it is more fun.

Rich Fri Dec 14, 2007 06:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun
Part of officiating should be integrity and I've seen this many times. Assume the following:

1. An official wants to get better
2. An official is ready to do high school varsity
3. An official is given the choice between a varsity game and a middle school game - the official chooses the varsity game.

If those three things were true for you then yes, you do want to do higher level basketball. Period. The end. It is finished. Stop saying otherwise.

Juulie is right, it is more fun.

I'm at a point of my career (I'm 38 and I started a month after my 18th birthday calling MS/FR games) where I don't work anything but varsity games (it's not that I wouldn't, but I have a young child and I've decided to either work the V game or stay home), and threads like this remind me why some people prefer sticking to lower levels. The expectations are lower and there are fewer people really watching you.

But:

Personally, I find it easier to call varsity games. They're more predictable in every sense of the word. When I actually need to provide game management/control, I have the skills and experience, but many nights are routine, and that's fun in its own way. And I don't need to leave work/home early.

And having a band playing pregame and an anthem is addictive :)

Off to do a girls game I picked up on Wednesday. God bless snow makeups when I actually want to work.

DonInKansas Fri Dec 14, 2007 06:15pm

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Or, if he's married, he can ask the wife for her opinion. Just remind her the stripes are mandatory.
Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
....and black socks and shoes.:D

Um, don't forget the pants, hmmm? PLEASE.......:D


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