Doh!

[Rita C]

I had a recent post where I whined about people not being able to understand that a touch in the frontcourt on a throwin does not give the ball frontcourt status.

So last night, I'm trail, the ball is thrown in from the baseline, tipped by the offense in the frontcourt, goes to backcourt and is recovered by the offense.

And I blew my whistle.

Sigh.

Rita

[jdw3018]

Isn't that just the way it goes...

BTW...a touch in the frontcourt on a throw-in does give the ball frontcourt status. But, then going to retrieve the ball in the backcourt is not a violation because that team never had team control.

[joseph2493]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Isn't that just the way it goes...

BTW...a touch in the frontcourt on a throw-in does give the ball frontcourt status. But, then going to retrieve the ball in the backcourt is not a violation because that team never had team control.

How can there be frontcourt status if there is no team control. Doesn't the team that is in control define whether you are standing in frontcourt or backcourt?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by joseph2493

How can there be frontcourt status if there is no team control. Doesn't the team that is in control define whether you are standing in frontcourt or backcourt?

Hmm...good point. A better way to say that would be that the touching gives the ball status in that half of the court. But, it doesn't really matter which half of the court it has status in, as nobody yet has team control...

[joseph2493]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Hmm...good point. A better way to say that would be that the touching gives the ball status in that half of the court. But, it doesn't really matter which half of the court it has status in, as nobody yet has team control...

I would somewhat agree. Until a team gaines control it really doesn't matter what the court status is. The important thing to remember about the touching is that it did end the throw-in so some options do change.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by joseph2493

I would somewhat agree. I don't know that this is important on a throw-in though. Until a team gaines control it really doesn't matter. The important thing to remember about the touching is that it did end the throw-in so some options do change.

Absolutely...the touch ending the throw-in is what's important, and that's the point I was trying to make, while also pointing out that the ball's status is determined by that touch as well.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by joseph2493

How can there be frontcourt status if there is no team control. Doesn't the team that is in control define whether you are standing in frontcourt or backcourt?

No, the lines painted on the floor and rule 4-13 in the book define what is the frontcourt and what is the backcourt.

Which team has control has nothing to do with it.

The ball has a status of its own. That can be live or dead, inbounds or OOB, and in the FC or BC. Players each have their own status. Each can be inbounds, OOB, in the FC or in the BC and we hope that none are dead.

The status of the ball and the players are independent concepts. They only connect when the ball is in contact with a player or more than one player.
It is entirely possible to have all ten players in the backcourt and the ball in the frontcourt with respect to Team A. (Actually, I can think of a situation in which all five players from Team A can legally be OOB, all five players of Team B can be in their backcourt, and the ball can be in the backcourt of Team A!!! )

Please give 4-4 and 4-35 a thorough read.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No, the lines painted on the floor and rule 4-13 in the book define what is the frontcourt and what is the backcourt.

Which team has control has nothing to do with it.

The ball has a status of its own. That can be live or dead, inbounds or OOB, and in the FC or BC. Players each have their own status. Each can be inbounds, OOB, in the FC or in the BC and we hope that none are dead.

While this is true there is no rule that depends on FC or BC status without team control that I can think of. In the OP's play FC/BC status is irrelevant. Do you agree...or is there some 3rd world case where it might apply that you can think of?

btw...4-13 just defines FC/BC, it doesn't tell you how FC/BC status is defined. The rule you'll need for ball status is actually 4-4.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

While this is true there is no rule that depends on FC or BC status without team control that I can think of. In the OP's play FC/BC status is irrelevant. Do you agree...or is there some 3rd world case where it might apply that you can think of?

Can't think of one.

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

btw...4-13 just defines FC/BC, it doesn't tell you how FC/BC status is defined. The rule you'll need for ball status is actually 4-4.

That's exactly what I said. I even cited 4-4 after talking about ball status.
You may need another cup of coffee this morning.

[joseph2493]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No, the lines painted on the floor and rule 4-13 in the book define what is the frontcourt and what is the backcourt.

Which team has control has nothing to do with it.

The ball has a status of its own. That can be live or dead, inbounds or OOB, and in the FC or BC. Players each have their own status. Each can be inbounds, OOB, in the FC or in the BC and we hope that none are dead.

The status of the ball and the players are independent concepts. They only connect when the ball is in contact with a player or more than one player.
It is entirely possible to have all ten players in the backcourt and the ball in the frontcourt with respect to Team A. (Actually, I can think of a situation in which all five players from Team A can legally be OOB, all five players of Team B can be in their backcourt, and the ball can be in the backcourt of Team A!!! )

Please give 4-4 and 4-35 a thorough read.

Ok, I used the word "standing" vs what I shoud have said where the ball is located Frontcourt/Backcourt.

When the ball is in A's frontcourt it is in B's backcourt. The post I originally replied to states that when the ball is touched in the frontcourt in gains front court status (keeping in mind the throwin)

How is that statement true. If the touching is by B first (and you go with the thought that we have to define frontcourt/backcourt) wouldn't that make the ball have "backcourt" status?

I'm not trying to be difficult. I am just trying to make sure you understand where my statement was coming from.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by joseph2493

How is that statement true. If the touching is by B first (and you go with the thought that we have to define frontcourt/backcourt) wouldn't that make the ball have "backcourt" status?

The ball has BC status for Team B AND FC status for Team A. Since Team A is the only one we care about in this play, we use that notation.

[DTQ_Blue]

Did you know it was a miscall right away? If so did you stick with the call? I'm in my first full year and I know that's going to happen to me soon enough.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

Did you know it was a miscall right away? If so did you stick with the call? I'm in my first full year and I know that's going to happen to me soon enough.

I can't answer for what Rita did, but when you do this, pat yourself on the head and resume with a new throwin for team A.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I can't answer for what Rita did, but when you do this, pat yourself on the head and resume with a new throwin for team A.

Oh yeah. That's what I did.

Rita

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Rita C

I had a recent post where I whined about people not being able to understand that a touch in the frontcourt on a throwin does not give the ball frontcourt status.

So last night, I'm trail, the ball is thrown in from the baseline, tipped by the offense in the frontcourt, goes to backcourt and is recovered by the offense.

And I blew my whistle.

Sigh.

Rita

Did you say "D'Oh!" out loud? Or did you think you said it out loud?