Official correcting improper Time out call
 

Middle school Team A is driving to basket on fast break at end of second quarter.

Coach A yells to players on bench about proper defensive technique on the last play.

Official interprets the instructions Coach A is yelling as a Time Out call by Coach A. Coach A did not use the words "time" or "out" or anything that rhymes with them.

When Coach A explains that he did not want the time out, especially to stop a fastbreak with 3 seconds remaining, the official charges Team A with a Full time out and says his call is uncorrectable.

Is there an inadvertent whistle rule that would deal with this situation?

Yes. Put the ball back in play at the POI.

If the coach did actually request a time-out at a time when he couldn't have one by rule, then apply this:
5.8.3 SITUATION E: The official erroneously grants Team B a time-out in a situation when Team B cannot have one. What happens now? RULING: Team B is entitled to use the time-out since it was granted. The time-out once granted cannot be revoked and is charged to Team B. All privileges and rights permitted during a charged time-out are available to both teams.

thanks for your reply

Should I have been charged with the timeout??

My player was in control of the ball with a clear path to the basket with 3 seconds left. I did not gain any advantage in the "time out" call.

The official claimed this was uncorrectable.

If he granted the timeout, you're stuck with it.

I don't necessarily like this ruling, but it's there for a reason - so a coach can't claim to have no requested a TO in order to stop the clock but not lose a TO.

If I mess up that badly, then you're getting your time out back.

It's a Rome thing: I was once in a provincial quarter-final and I erroneously granted a timeout. The coach was deer in headlights. I realized that happened, and gave his TO back, explained to both coaches that it was my error. Evaluator said I did the right thing.

IW: go to POI.

So coach A, how did you handle it AFTER all that? Just curious, since there are the really classy coaches who take their TO and don't scream at the official, and the really jerk-y ones who scream at the officials and make total fools of themselves and everyone in the gym, and then there are the rest of us, who would get close to a T, but realize it was hopeless and grumble quietly until we got to the locker room.

And also, have you talked to that official's assignor or supervisor?

I like to think of myself as a classy guy but I was jerk
I refused to take the timeout and left my team on the floor

If my kid was stumbling and ready to travel or turnover the ball I could see that the 'time out" would have benefited my team.

I reminded him that he was the only one in the gym that thought I needed a timeout with my kid unobstructed to the hoop with 3 seconds left.

He could've admitted he heard it wrong and given us the ball.

In the end, we lost a layup and a timeout.

The thing is, the rule says once it's granted, it has to be taken. Some officials see this and assume they have to give it to a coach once they blow their whistle. I'd guess these are your newer ones, for the most part.

My suggestion, try not to yell things that sound like "time out." :)

LOL!! That doesn't sound all that jerk-y by you. Leaving players on the floor, refusing to acknowledge TO isn't bad at all!

And then what happened? Did you end up winning? And did you talk to the ref's supervisor? And what level was it? I'm enjoying this scenario (from the comfort and safety of my sick-bed at home!)

I never said time out. That's what made it so absurd

Last week, one of my partners had a similar situation.

Team A went into a "stall offense," being up 2 points with 0:45 seconds left to play in the game. The gym was very loud. Coach A starts yelling "Five Out, Five Out, Five Out." My partner interperts this to be "Time Out." I see the similarity since we were in a loud gym.

The coach responds with the typical deer-in-the-headlights look and calmly tells my partner that he was calling "five out," the offensive play he wanted his team to execute. My partner explained the situation to the other coach and we resumed play at the POI with an "inadvertent whistle" ruling.

Team B ended up fouling Team A and A1 missed the first shot of the 1-and-1. Team B secures the rebound and goes into a stall offense and end up winning the game on a three-point shot as the horn sounded.

I don't have my book with me, anything in the book about inadvertent whistle situations? I don't think there is...

hope you're feeling better

the problem was that the other coach took the time out, we've been coaching against each other for about twenty yers and I was not happy with him

we won by a point on a bizzare finish that had nothing to do with the coaches or the refs. It's nice to see the kids involved in this.:)

Did it sound like "time out?" "Five out?" "Side out?" "Line out?"

he/she said it didnt.

What level play?

The other coach WAS entitled to take that time out, since the ref had granted it, and you were dinged for it. Would be interesting to know what the ref would have done if your opponent had said, "No, I won't take it if my opponent doesn't want it".

Wow, you'd think I would have caught that after reading the OP repeatedly. I'm in a funk today, I guess.

Must be that tennis bracelet I almost bought for my wife.

He said it.

:D

....but... is she a tennis bracelet kinda gal??

LOL! Oh, dear! well, I know I'm in a funk... so I guess if that excuse works for you, it works for me too! (Mine has nothing to do with tennis bracelets!)

I don't think so. She doesn't even play tennis.

Good Old Days
 

How I long for the "Good Old Days" when only the five, or ten, players right in front of the officials could call time out. It made things a lot easier.

Come on folks, understand the concept
 

We've discussed this issue before on this forum. An official incorrectly hearing something and wrongly believing that a time-out request was made when it wasn't is an accidental whistle. There was no actual reason to blow the whistle. (BTW accidental whistle appears in 4-36-1 and 7.5.3)
This is very different from when a coach or player DOES in fact request a time-out, but it is in a situation in which the request cannot be granted by rule, yet the official mistakenly grants the request. In that case, the time-out cannot be revoked and is charged.

Okay, perhaps you can show which of us here misunderstand this concept?

So the other coach called time out when you had the ball and the whistle was blown?

I guess R should have realized his mistake after he blew the whistle, given the TO to the other team, and given you the ball at TOI.

And instead, he charged you a TO, and gave you the ball at TOI.

Do I read this correctly?

Neither coach asked for a TO. The official thought he heard port23 ask for it and assumed that once he blew his whistle for the TO it had to be granted regardless of whether it was truly requested.

Maybe if we do this enough, coaches on the rules committee will remove the rule that allows them to do it. ;)

Well then you certainly shouldn't be posting. You should be concetnrating on meeting your husband's...

err ... you should be sure that when your husband takes you shopping he'll actually buy you a ...

Oh. Funk.

That's different.

Never mind.

My husband knows very well how to handle my funks. What works and what doesn't. Tennis bracelets aren't it. 28 years last weekend, and doing very well, thank you!

Quote:
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Come on folks, understand the concept
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That's not hard. Just look at post #4 by jdw, "If he granted the timeout, you're stuck with it," and post #8 by YOU, "The thing is, the rule says once it's granted, it has to be taken."

That's not the context of the ruling. The ruling is for when the time-out has first been REQUESTED and then if it is granted, it cannot be revoked. Some people seem to be struggling to grasp the first part of that concept. :(

Well, since we're quoting me, allow me to quote myself in context.
I obviously understood the ruling. The rule does say what I said it does; and some officials misunderstand it as I indicated.

I'll grant you the post by jdw, I missed that one.

The ref was ready to wait the entire FULL TIME OUT time before he resumed play. The other Coach huddled his kids up when he realized this. I did tell him after the game that I ddin't appreciate this. Two good refs always have each others back. I told him that he should have done the same for me.

Thanks for the quality feedback.

We rate our refs 1-10. A response of 5 or less in judgement merits a written reason. I have not given a ref a score of less than 10 since 1996. I'll give him a 5 for not using the "common sense" rule in a middle school game.

My opinion is the refs aren't perfect, I'm certainly not perfect and neither are the kids playing the game. Everyone does the best they can do and it usually evens out in the long run.

I give the refs a ten because whenever I ref a scrimmage it become quite apparent how hard the job is. They also NEVER play a HOME game.

Merry Christmas and happy holiday!:)

If all MS coaches were this reasonable, I'd be very happy to do MS for the rest of my days. Well, with the occasional varsity game at camp. The worst part about MS isn't the lower level of play, but the bad attitudes that coaches have and that players get from their coaches.

That's funny! :)

I guess you won't coach defense when your team has the ball on a fast break anymore.

Now its an official ruling.
 

The NFHS took an old case play and ammended it in the 2008-09 Case Book to specifically address this situation for the upcoming season.

NEW*

5.8.3 Situation E: A1 is dribbling the ball in his/her backcourt when: (a) the Team B head coach requests and is erroneously granted a time-out by an official; or (b) the Team A head coach is yelling "side out" offensive instructions to his/her team and the official stops play believing the coach requested a time-out. RULING: In (a), Team B is entitled to use the time-out since it was requested and granted; once granted it cannot be revoked and is charged to Team B. All privileges and rights permitted during a charged time-out are available to both teams. Play will resume with a Team A throw-in nearest to where play was stopped. In (b), an accidental whistle has occurred. Team A was not requesting a time-out, and therefore, should not be granted or charged with one. Play is resumed at the point of interruption. (4-36-1; 4-36-2a)

This is the way I've handled similar situations in the past, but it's good to have clerification, specifically in writing - "Side Out!" Coach, what is this volleyball?

How about the calling official having good situational awareness. If I think I hear "time-out" being called by the coach of the team who has team and player control while said player is on a break-away with under 3-seconds left I'm ignoring it if I'm the lead (focusing on potential travel, foul, intentional foul calls) and if I'm the trail I'm looking at the coach to see if he is indicating a TO. Coaches who want TO's in the final minute of a quarter tend to be quite demonstrative.

I've got three new plays that I'll be calling from the bench this year.

"threeseconds"

"overtheback"

"reeeeeach"

If I were a coach and read that case play, I'd start yelling "side out" everytime my team had the ball in the backcourt for 8 seconds (and it wasn't a point in the game where I'd take a TO to avoid the violation). Maybe the ref will blow the whistle and I'll get another 10 seconds.

Heck, I'd even get one of my players to change his name to "Ty Mount" so I could be sure to try to get his attention at such a critical point in the game. ;)

Dammit! Now I have to explain to my students why I'm laughing so hard.

I wish this were always the case. I've had soooo many "cool cucumber" coaches who will stand up, glance my way, quietly say "time out" and not even make a gesture, other than to tuck their shirt tail in. Give me something to work with, please.

I agree, in my experience, it happens this way quite often. I'd guess around 32.534123413431515% of the time.

GREAT! (sarc) Coaches (overt and covert to the forum) are now passing this around for use in their rec leagues this yr! Like I don't have enough to worry about! :eek:

Coach - "Ty Mout!"
Ref - Tweet!! "Time Out"
Coach - "What?"
Ref - "You yelled Time Out"
Coach - "No, I was yelling at #16 Ty Mout, trying to get his attention and he wasn't paying attention."
Ref - Tweet!! "Let's go gentlemen, Blue, going that way."
And so it goes......

Yeah, 'cause rec league refs are paying attention to the new case plays.

Actually, I've fwd'ed Bob's advice to start yelling SIDE OUT with 2 seconds left in a 10 count.......

:D

Don't let the coach get away with this! Assess the T for the illegal jersey number :D

Back In The Saddle Must Have Stayed At A Holiday Inn Express ...
 

Nice catch. I'm sure that many others on this Forum, including me, missed this infraction.

Yeah, BITS was up to speed on that one! Didn't even think about it - gotta get back to the books and in the proper mindset!!

PS - But, it was rec league anyhow and we're not enforcing it too much at that level. And, as another Forum member sometimes states - That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Not that anybody would believe me, but I did...but I chose a different comeback route!!

I did. But here players may have #16; and coaches are not allowed to ask for a time out by just screaming "TIME OUT". It's FIBA, you know. :)

Ok, so there is ONE thing in the FIBA rules that is better. :D

But players are not allowed to call a time out either. The coach asks for it to the scorer, who sounds the horn at the first opportunity (dead ball and stopped clock, basically).

Even better.