Shoving Match...

[bigdog5142]

I'm doing a boys frosh game tonight with a good partner. Visitor's down by double digits the whole game, close to within 3 in the last 2 minutes. Visitor's now down about six and B1 (visitor) fouls A1 (home) HARD...really hard. I call an intentional. I get my partner's eye and he's got the players (no situation occurring yet). I turn around to report the foul and two players get into a shoving match and some talking to each other. My partner yells, "You both need to go sit down and cool off!" After they do and the coaches sub for them, I have a short conference with my partner. I asked if he had thrown them out or what...and he said that he just told them to sit down! Didn't really know how to handle that...I agreed with his reasoning...under a minute left and they just needed to cool off. However, we probably should've at least had double T's and moved on. I just went with what he said as he saw the incident, I did not. Shot the FT's with the lane cleared and gave the home team the ball at the spot nearest to the foul. (I was the R, by the way.) Should we have gone with the double T's (when I didn't see what happened) or is it within our authority to act as we did. The coaches seemed to appreciate the gesture, but I have a feeling in my gut that we didn't handle it correctly by the book. Our intentions were correct, but probably not within our authority. What do you guys think?

[blindzebra]

Unless you DQ them for fighting you can't make them sit down.

If you had physical contact and words you really need to have double T's.

It's also a good idea whenever you have a hard foul to get in there and keep that proximity to help keep the confrontation from happening. I will also use my captains in that situation and tell them to get in there and control your teammates.

[bigdog5142]

I agree with the proximity...I got in there and had the proximity...caught my partner's eye...left him with the proximity (he was running toward the play as well) in order to report.

[Adam]

Sounds to me like double Ts would have been the way to go. But since you didn't see it, it's all on your partner.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bigdog5142

I'm doing a boys frosh game tonight with a good partner. Visitor's down by double digits the whole game, close to within 3 in the last 2 minutes. Visitor's now down about six and B1 (visitor) fouls A1 (home) HARD...really hard. I call an intentional. I get my partner's eye and he's got the players (no situation occurring yet). I turn around to report the foul and two players get into a shoving match and some talking to each other. My partner yells, "You both need to go sit down and cool off!" After they do and the coaches sub for them, I have a short conference with my partner. I asked if he had thrown them out or what...and he said that he just told them to sit down! Didn't really know how to handle that...I agreed with his reasoning...under a minute left and they just needed to cool off. However, we probably should've at least had double T's and moved on. I just went with what he said as he saw the incident, I did not. Shot the FT's with the lane cleared and gave the home team the ball at the spot nearest to the foul. (I was the R, by the way.) Should we have gone with the double T's (when I didn't see what happened) or is it within our authority to act as we did. The coaches seemed to appreciate the gesture, but I have a feeling in my gut that we didn't handle it correctly by the book. Our intentions were correct, but probably not within our authority. What do you guys think?

Exact same situation, but in football...

An officiating association near me did this in a playoff game. They told a player to "cool down" and sent him off. There is no rule to permit an official to do this, as the situation is directly covered by rule. The explanation given was "that's how we do it here."

My personal opinion is to issue the proper penalty. After hearing the story and how other officials were amazed at such behavoir is permitted to take place, it is more clear to than ever that you should get together with the calling official and tell him that he cannot, by rule, do what he did, and urge him to issue a double technical foul. Although you cannot issue the double T, because you did not see the action, you can have a discussion with him before the game continues.

[Nevadaref]

As others have responded the officials have no authority to decide which players may play, nor may they insist that a coach/team substitute for a player. If a team member has not been DQ'd then he may participate. Of course, a request can be made to a coach, but that's all.

In your situation it was a freshmen game. While I would not have handled it as your partner did, I wouldn't make a big deal out of it either. Now I wouldn't let my partner do it this way in a varsity contest, but perhaps an official could observe that the player's uniforms were not being worn properly.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Of course, a request can be made to a coach, but that's all.

In my experience, coaches "get" what you're saying with a request like this and are unusually compliant: "Coach, get this kid off the floor so that I don't have to." They want to keep them in the game, too.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mbyron

In my experience, coaches "get" what you're saying with a request like this and are unusually compliant: "Coach, get this kid off the floor so that I don't have to." They want to keep them in the game, too.

Yup. "If you don't take of him, coach, I will." That's a promise, not a threat.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In your situation it was a freshmen game. While I would not have handled it as your partner did, I wouldn't make a big deal out of it either. Now I wouldn't let my partner do it this way in a varsity contest,

I agree, for whatever that's worth.

[inigo montoya]

I've had this happen in a middle school game on two separate occasions - minus the physical contact after the previously-called foul. Girls jawing and approaching each other READY to make it physical, partner approached and directed them to leave the game. For me, at JV or higher in your situation I probably would have gone ahead and issued the double technical, but if my partner had handled it that the way yours did I wouldn't have been too upset either.

[bigdog5142]

I agree witn you inigo. I really didn't see it as a big deal, so I let it go. I just thought about it after the fact and just felt like we should've T'd them up...if for nothing else, the officials that will have these teams later on. We set a precedent that refs "might not" issue T's with physical contact. That bothers me. Just try to do it right next time.