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PIAA REF Thu Nov 29, 2007 09:41am

Case Book Question
 
For those of you who may have missed this case scenerio what do you have (i will post the answer later)

Team A is awarded a throw-in near the division line. A1's throw-in is deflected by B1. A2 jumps from Team A's frontcourt, catches the ball in the air and lands in the backcourt.

What is the ruling?

jdw3018 Thu Nov 29, 2007 09:45am

This is a backcourt violation, and it's been discussed in several threads here.

9.9.1 Sit D

PYRef Thu Nov 29, 2007 09:46am

I think we went over this in great length another thread. I believe the Fed ruled this was a backcourt violation.

Scrapper1 Thu Nov 29, 2007 09:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018
This is a backcourt violation, and it's been discussed in several threads here.

Including this one, which I started a couple months ago: http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=38126

joseph2493 Thu Nov 29, 2007 09:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PIAA REF
For those of you who may have missed this case scenerio what do you have (i will post the answer later)

Team A is awarded a throw-in near the division line. A1's throw-in is deflected by B1. A2 jumps from Team A's frontcourt, catches the ball in the air and lands in the backcourt.

What is the ruling?

Backcourt violation...B1's touching ended the throw in...

PYRef Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseph2493
Backcourt violation...B1's touching ended the throw in...

and the fact that A1 leaped from the FC to the BC and caught the ball in the air.

joseph2493 Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PYRef
and the fact that A1 leaped from the FC to the BC and caught the ball in the air.

Obviously that had a little to play in the call :)

rngrck Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:11pm

F/u question. Team A has throw in at div line to start the period. A1 throws to A2 who is in the back court. Is this a violation? How about in all other times when you have a div line throw in?

jdw3018 Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:22pm

In NFHS the location of the throw-in does not matter. So, in your question, no it is not a violation. Team A can have a throw-in from under the basket in their frontcourt, throw the ball all the way to the other end of the court where A1 can catch the ball in the backcourt.

Bearfanmike20 Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PIAA REF
For those of you who may have missed this case scenerio what do you have (i will post the answer later)

Team A is awarded a throw-in near the division line. A1's throw-in is deflected by B1. A2 jumps from Team A's frontcourt, catches the ball in the air and lands in the backcourt.

What is the ruling?

Without looking at any of the other replies...

Its a backcourt violation. He had front court status because he was established in the front court when he left his feet.

joseph2493 Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Without looking at any of the other replies...

Its a backcourt violation. He had front court status because he was established in the front court when he left his feet.

You are correct, but the key to remember is it is a violation because B1 touched the ball, had B1 not touched the ball you would have nothing...

Ref in PA Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:59pm

I think the NFHS kicked this interpretation. Only the offensive situation made it into the case book (9.9.1 Sit D) but the NFHS posted the same situation only it is B2 doing the jumping and called it a violation (see situations 6 and 7 from this link: http://www.nfhs.org/web/2007/10/2007...s_interpr.aspx ).

The whole interpretation ignores 9-9-3 (those funny words "team not in control").

Jurassic Referee Thu Nov 29, 2007 01:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref in PA
I think the NFHS kicked this interpretation.

The whole interpretation ignores 9-9-3 (those funny words "team not in control").

It might be more of a case of you not understanding the interpretation. The interpretation does <b>not</b> ignore rule 9-9-3. The interpretation is telling you that rule 9-9-3 is <b>NOT</b> applicable because 9-9-3 is an exception that <b>only</b> applies <b>during</b> a throw-in. They are simply telling you that 9-9-3 does not apply <b>after</b> a throw-in has ended.

The key "funny" words are "<b>during</b> a throw-in".

Adam Thu Nov 29, 2007 01:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref in PA
I think the NFHS kicked this interpretation. Only the offensive situation made it into the case book (9.9.1 Sit D) but the NFHS posted the same situation only it is B2 doing the jumping and called it a violation (see situations 6 and 7 from this link: http://www.nfhs.org/web/2007/10/2007...s_interpr.aspx ).

The whole interpretation ignores 9-9-3 (those funny words "team not in control").

There was a pretty serious discussion here last year (maybe the year before) about this very play. Some considered the parenthetical examples (a defensive player, or duing a jump ball or throwin) were meant to be all-inclusive or mere expamples of times when a team would not be in control.

This is a crucial distinction, as it determines whether this play is a violation after the throwin is tipped, after the jump ball is touched by a non-jumper, or on a long rebound.

For full disclosure, I thought it was meant to show examples but not be all-inclusive. This year's NFHS interpretation clearly shows I was wrong, and it is meant to be all-inclusive.

Camron Rust Thu Nov 29, 2007 03:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
It might be more of a case of you not understanding the interpretation. The interpretation does not ignore rule 9-9-3. The interpretation is telling you that rule 9-9-3 is NOT applicable because 9-9-3 is an exception that only applies during a throw-in. They are simply telling you that 9-9-3 does not apply after a throw-in has ended.

The key "funny" words are "during a throw-in".

Given that, imagine this play...


A1's throwing ball in. A2, in A's frontcourt, jumps to catch the ball but muff's it (throwin ends). Before landing, A2 is able to secure control of the ball. A2 lands in the backcourt. Violation?


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