Traveling - My Call or Not?

[Paul LeBoutillier]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOWB_Ref

Paul, the only question I have is why would you mention to the coaches you were increasing your court coverage? Doesn't that seem like you are impuining (sp?) the reputation of your partner further?

This was kind of a unique situation. He had already impuined his own reputation. I spoke about it to my Assignor and was told that this 1st year ref won't be renewed for next season. He was a good kid, but he didn't make ONE SINGLE call in the two games I did with him. I HAD to do something. I'm kinda curious what you other guys would've done.

[Peter Devana]

In officiating you must always have TRUST in your partnerer's decisions.. In your opinion he/she may have been wrong but if it was his/her call , let it go. BTW why were you both watching the ball???? Seems to me it wasn't any of your business. Minding your own business is something that all officials have got to learn to do more effectively.
Pistol

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Paul LeBoutillier
This was kind of a unique situation. He had already impuined his own reputation. I spoke about it to my Assignor and was told that this 1st year ref won't be renewed for next season. He was a good kid, but he didn't make ONE SINGLE call in the two games I did with him. I HAD to do something. I'm kinda curious what you other guys would've done.

I can tell you that as the newbie, with not nearly enough experience, I had a couple of partners who called too much of my stuff, but there were also a few who were too rigid about not bailing me out. I have had two times when my partner told the coach, "I'll talk to her about that" or "Julie, you can't call that that way. We're going with a blue ball." That's absolutely unforgivable. But there is an extreme that's too far the other direction -- not calling anything that I miss. I think the best is to pick up the very worst stuff, that the partner misses, but ALWAYS defend the partner to the coach, such as, "Coach, the player had his back turned and my partner couldn't see the foul." "Coach, I could see that he was watching that post player"

[Peter Devana]

Julie,
I agree with what you say to a certain extent. In the pregame I will discuss with my partner(s) that if something occurs that is a "spectator" foul/violation that everyone in the building has seen that is obvious and I have obviously missed give me a double tweet then bail me out- however if I am in position and see it clearly -LAY OFF!!!! It's my area -I saw it and it's my call.. In all cases one should never blow a foul or violation that occurs in front of a partner if that partner is in good position to see it clearly. For one thing in 90% of the cases all it shows is that you are following the ball and it is you who are at fault!
A good general rule is to "mind your own business" and stay in your area.
AMEN
Pistol

[Doug]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul LeBoutillier
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by SOWB_Ref

This was kind of a unique situation. He had already impuined his own reputation. I spoke about it to my Assignor and was told that this 1st year ref won't be renewed for next season. He was a good kid, but he didn't make ONE SINGLE call in the two games I did with him. I HAD to do something. I'm kinda curious what you other guys would've done.

You left this part out, the impression I got from it was that the person was doing ok, and just missed a BLATENT travel because they were watching something else (maybe off ball)

As rainmaker said, if it was a call that everyone in the gym saw (which it sounded like it) and if you were ballwatching and also saw it, call it.

Also, your assigner can not renew an official? How does that work, or do you mean just not give him any games?

[Paul LeBoutillier]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug

Also, your assigner can not renew an official? How does that work, or do you mean just not give him any games?

To be honest I'm not sure what he meant. The outcry from other officials against this guy was pretty intense. I guess if the guy wants to renew his certification, that's his business, but I got the distinct impression he wouldn't be getting any more games. It's too bad too, because as I said earlier, he's a neat kid with a good attitude.

[daves]

I had one in a summer league game last year. I was the lead on a breakaway. The player stops and spots up for a 3 pointer. I'm looking right at the guys feet to make sure he didn't travel and was behind the arc. The guy shoots and the basket goes in. I'm getting ready to signal 3 and my partner comes in from clear in backcourt at about the FT line and calls a travel. At half time I talked to him and told him that the player didn't travel. I said that I watch for stuff like that. He was totally out of position to make the call and I was all over it. I told him when he makes a long distance call like that it makes us both look bad.

[brettm]

As a so-called "rook", I have had the oppportunity to work with many veteran officials. I pride myself in being in the proper position and focusing on my area. I tell my partner(s) during pregame discussions to let me work my area and discuss issues with me during time-outs or at halftime. I have yet to have a veteran try to work my area as well as his.

Any official making a statement to a coach or player showing disagreement is only putting themselves in the position to be responsible for ALL calls. The last time I checked, the only friends on the court you have are the ones wearing the stripes.

[williebfree]

Originally posted by brettm
.... Any official making a statement to a coach or player showing disagreement is only putting themselves in the position to be responsible for ALL calls. The last time I checked, the only friends on the court you have are the ones wearing the stripes.

Well said, "rook". You are wise beyond your games!

[drinkeii]

I really don't understand this attitude of "It's my area, you stay out" - as I understand it, you have primary areas of responsibility. However, if something happens and you see it, not because you weren't doing what you were supposed to be, but because you happened to be glancing in that direction, or whatever, why not call it if it is something that is a foul? Maybe your partner passed on it - that's fine - it doesn't mean you have to also. I work with people who feel that they get to rewrite the rules as they see fit. If I have a clear understanding of what happened, and they chose to no-call it because they chose to ignore the rules, why is there a problem with me calling it? I have no problem with someone calling something in my area if I miss it, so why do others have a problem with people calling things in "their" area? Bottom line - we have primary areas of responsibility, but overall, we are both responsible for the entire game. According to the rules, each official has equal authority and responsibility to enforce the rules. The referee has some additional responsibilities, but he doesn't get to override the umpire/umpires. The rules say nothing about my area/your area. That is something added as mechanics...

[Bart Tyson]

Maybe the reason we have mechanics is because not all officials can make perfect calls out of their erea. Maybe its because some officials are tired of these great officials, who make calls in their partners area, see the play different and know the call that this great official just made, who can see the whole court, JUST MADE A BAD CALL. I believe if these officials are that great then maybe they should request to officiate the game by themselves. I'm sure the assigner and the coaches and players and fans will recognize their abilities. I'm sure you have heard about the study the NBA does every year. Bottom line, in the NBA, NCAA, and HS, the rules committee has a great input on the mechanics and don't believe there are enough great officials who can referee the whole court. So they have decided to not come up with a ONE MAN MECHANIC.

[RX Ref]

Originally posted by Paul LeBoutillier

Having said what I did above about having to cover for a bad partner who refused to blow his whistle, let me also say that I try, whenever possible, to respect the "area rule" and not call outside mine BUT, you know sometimes on trail I see things that the lead can't and visa versa. Several times kids will turn their back to the official closest to them and I have a CLEAR view of a foul that he can't see.

I always tell my partner in the pregame I'm going to " call it if I see it" Sometimes if the play is to close, your view is limited. I want my partner do do the same because if he can see it, everyone else probally did too.

[RX Ref]

Originally posted by drinkeii
I really don't understand this attitude of "It's my area, you stay out" - as I understand it, you have primary areas of responsibility. However, if something happens and you see it, not because you weren't doing what you were supposed to be, but because you happened to be glancing in that direction, or whatever, why not call it if it is something that is a foul? Maybe your partner passed on it - that's fine - it doesn't mean you have to also. I work with people who feel that they get to rewrite the rules as they see fit. If I have a clear understanding of what happened, and they chose to no-call it because they chose to ignore the rules, why is there a problem with me calling it? I have no problem with someone calling something in my area if I miss it, so why do others have a problem with people calling things in "their" area? Bottom line - we have primary areas of responsibility, but overall, we are both responsible for the entire game. According to the rules, each official has equal authority and responsibility to enforce the rules. The referee has some additional responsibilities, but he doesn't get to override the umpire/umpires. The rules say nothing about my area/your area. That is something added as mechanics...

[Bart Tyson]

Maybe the reason your partner missed the play right in front of him is because he was following your pregame instructions.

[drinkeii]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Maybe the reason we have mechanics is because not all officials can make perfect calls out of their erea. Maybe its because some officials are tired of these great officials, who make calls in their partners area, see the play different and know the call that this great official just made, who can see the whole court, JUST MADE A BAD CALL. I believe if these officials are that great then maybe they should request to officiate the game by themselves. I'm sure the assigner and the coaches and players and fans will recognize their abilities. I'm sure you have heard about the study the NBA does every year. Bottom line, in the NBA, NCAA, and HS, the rules committee has a great input on the mechanics and don't believe there are enough great officials who can referee the whole court. So they have decided to not come up with a ONE MAN MECHANIC.

I'm not saying that the one official is expected to cover the whole court - but there are times, like in a game I was doing a couple of days ago, that my partner was very close to the person coming up the court from the backcourt, and I was lead and already at the baseline. I saw a travel, because I had a clear path through the other players, and called it. My partner never saw it, and when I asked, he was watching the player and the defender on him, and not watching his feet. I had looked at my primary area, and saw that there was no competitive matchup, nothing specific for me to keep an eye on, so I looked out and spent a little time watching the dribbler, to see where he was headed, before I looked back at my area. While looking, he stopped dribbling, and clearly traveled. There are officials who say that I should not have called it because it was outside my area. I say that if you see it, and it is obvious, and your partner missed it, call it. Otherwise, you look like a fool when no one calls an obvious travel. Not that I see everything, or any official can. But since you do have to glance around sometimes, if you catch something obvious, I would say to call it.