At what point do you acknowledge fans/parents?

[ILRef80]

Thanks for the responses. To answer some questions, it was definitely prolonged. I have never had any problems with fans but, with a packed high school gym, it's actually easier to ignore than if there are only 100 people (as was the case last night) at a junior high game.

I also felt that they were inciting their own team and frustrating the opponents. They were screaming about rules that don't exist (ex: 3 seconds during a throw in, they also thought that a FT shooter only has 5 seconds to shoot) as well as screaming foul on nearly every missed shot. Keep in mind, this game was a blowout and there team was ahead.

Again - I appreciate the responses. I didn't address them the whole time and I think I should have.

[Adam]

Was this a school sponsored game or an AAU/YMCA/travel league game of some sort? How involved was game management in general?

[stripes]

Until they become treatening to me, partners or players...fans can do what ever they want. This is not golf, being loud is totally acceptable.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not always recommended, but:

At one frosh game early in my career, I had nearly the same situation. I waited until one egregious comment (the fan wanted 3-seconds on a multiple try / rebound / try ... "play" with all 10 players in the lane), stopped the game when one team gained control, pointed to the fan and said, "You're gone" (giving my best baseball ejection mechanic). After he left, I explained the rule to the rest of the parents. There were some "ooh -- I didn't know that" comments and the rest of the game went smoothly.

WOW, you actually gave a rules clinic in the middle of a game? You got some guts man, I'll give you that. Personally, I wanna keep my job, if they wanna learn the rules they can do it on their own time.

[ILRef80]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Was this a school sponsored game or an AAU/YMCA/travel league game of some sort? How involved was game management in general?

School game. Game management was as involved as anyone could ask, considering the level. He checked on us between halves and sat at the end of the bleachers while the game was being played.

Originally Posted by ILRef80

I also felt that they were inciting their own team and frustrating the opponents. They were screaming about rules that don't exist (ex: 3 seconds during a throw in, they also thought that a FT shooter only has 5 seconds to shoot) as well as screaming foul on nearly every missed shot. Keep in mind, this game was a blowout and there team was ahead.

Again - I appreciate the responses. I didn't address them the whole time and I think I should have.

Unfortunately, you can't officiate stupidity by the fans and you can't stop the game to give them a rules clinic. If anything, I would consider saying something to the coach or AD. I would tend to think that without the first two P's, you were better off ignoring it.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by ILRef80

School game. Game management was as involved as anyone could ask, considering the level. He checked on us between halves and sat at the end of the bleachers while the game was being played.

If it was bad enough that you had to post about it, maybe you should have said something to game management. Was it going on before half-time? That might be a good time to ask them to keep an eye on their fans as they were getting borderline out of hand. I wouldn't be afraid to dump someone in a JH game. Some of those parents have no idea what sportsmanship looks like. In fact, the only fan I've ever had removed was from a JH game. He also happened to be on the school board of the district I worked in. Not a great situation, but he needed to go.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ILRef80

Thanks for the responses. To answer some questions, it was definitely prolonged. I have never had any problems with fans but, with a packed high school gym, it's actually easier to ignore than if there are only 100 people (as was the case last night) at a junior high game.

I also felt that they were inciting their own team and frustrating the opponents. They were screaming about rules that don't exist (ex: 3 seconds during a throw in, they also thought that a FT shooter only has 5 seconds to shoot) as well as screaming foul on nearly every missed shot. Keep in mind, this game was a blowout and there team was ahead.

Again - I appreciate the responses. I didn't address them the whole time and I think I should have.

I think you should have too.

If you can pull it off just stop the game and quietly appeal to them as adults to take a closer look at where they are and the age of the players.

If not that then pick one & just toss 'em. That *always* works.

[Coltdoggs]

I agree with most of what the others have said...listen for the entertainment factor. If it becomes overly personal and crosses the line into affecting your ability to focus on the game out of fear for your physical well being, then you should tell management.

I think the level is important also...I'm going to have a heck of a lot more tolerance the higher the level. THe lower level rec league stuff...it's about sportsmanship and I won't hesitate to say something directly to the parents and if need be toss em...For the most part, you just gotta ignore it.

I have on occassion when waiting to resume play tried to lighten the mood and made a joke about their comments...Something like, "Man, you guys are all OVER the calls today..." see what they say and see if you can joke about it and lightetn the situation...I've found that if they see the "human side" of us, it sometimes eases their tension...

In my rec league that I sit on the board and ref in....I stopped a game and told an overly loud, obnoxious dad during 5/6 grade playoff game last year that I had heard enough of his comments...He got smart with me that I was addressing him (something about I should be focused on the game and not him)....at that point I told him I was no longer the ref speaking to him and it was now the Board Member for the league and if he wanted to continue watching from the gym, he'd be quiet the rest of the game. Didn't hear another word from him...After the game his wife came up and apologized to me for his behavior....

EDIT: As DanRef said...the guy you toss should be the first one that goes smart *** after you appeal to them as an adult...

[Adam]

It's obvious that your concentration was affected. The tolerance level for this is going to vary by official. Some have just never experienced this level of behavior, some have just never heard it because they legitimately tune it out during a game. There's nothing that says you should have to take the abuse, just because some refs can tune it out.

I wouldn't address them personally, though. Stop the game, get game management to deal with it. They will deal with the problem. If they were sitting near them, they should have dealt with it already.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Took me a couple seconds, but I figured it out!

Right: I first learned about the rule (sometimes called the 3 P's) for baseball, but it works just as well in basketball.

I had a coach tell me last weekend that a foul I had just called was a "terrible call." Then he stopped. Fine: he's entitled to his opinion of the call. It's the guy who goes on to say "you're terrible" who gets the T for a personal comment.

In fact, on that particular occasion, the coach was correct. It was a terrible call. We later laughed about even refs needing the pre-season.

[dblref]

Originally Posted by CLH

WOW, you actually gave a rules clinic in the middle of a game? You got some guts man, I'll give you that. Personally, I wanna keep my job, if they wanna learn the rules they can do it on their own time.

I've done this with wreck ball parents a couple of times in my career. You just have to pick the spot and it seemed to do the trick. One time going from back court to front court and having both feet and the ball in the front court. And, sort of like with Bob, parents said "OK, thanks, we didn't know that."

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by stripes

Until they become treatening to me, partners or players...fans can do what ever they want.

So, once they give you treats, they have to stop? Seems like it should be the other way around.

[stripes]

No, I don't like treats, only threats!

[SeanFitzRef]

Working 3 whistle, 8th grade A level championship. Large crowd for the size of the gym, about 350 people, made for a good atmosphere. Allowed parents from both teams to stand along baseline wall (about 10' away from the court).

One 'parent' from the home team starts consistently screaming at my partners and me on every trip down to that end of the floor, becasue the home team was shooting at the far basket and every trip down the court we were missing something or had our 'heads up our @$$3$'. After the last comment, towards the end of the first quarter, I gave game management a heads up that the next comment of such ilk would require us to clear the baseline. Sure enough, next time down he gives my partner an earful as we are setting up to shoot free throws, so I walk over directly in front of the 'parent' and order the baseline cleared. Game management was very helpful, and told the 'parent' that was enough. The 'parent' turned bright red, then quietly watched the rest of the game from the corner.

Embarrasment tends to work very well in these situations, and it performed beautifully in this one.