mixed emotions

[devdog69]

Varsity boys game, three man crew with pretty good partners. We are all on the same page trying to stay out of the game, letting them play, it was what I would call physical but not rough. Mostly because both teams were bad and couldn't catch the ball so a lot of loose ball situations. I am in "C", A1 comes down with rebound directly in front of my partner at "L", as he comes down with the ball B1 bumps him from behind. I don't call a foul for several reasons, it was unintentional, once B realized A had secured the ball he backed off, it was consistent with what we were allowing in the game, it was right in front of my partner. A1 is now teetering on the out of bounds line and looses the ball out of bounds, here is where I should have gotten a foul on B1 with a slow whistle I think, it would have been really late though. "L" apparently was totally unaware of the contact from B1, he blows the whistle and gives the ball to B. A1 is upset and gets a quick "T" from my partner, now I really think I blew it. After the game my partner says "I don't know what he was whining about it was his teammate that pushed him". That is when I fessed up and said "no, he had a legitimate complaint, I had a good angle and saw B1 with the contact from behind, I should have came in and got the foul". Not too big of a deal in the overall scheme of the game, but something to think about.

[Danvrapp]

Originally posted by devdog69
..., here is where I should have gotten a foul on B1 with a slow whistle I think, it would have been really late though

I've done this very seldom in my officiating "career," but I think the late whistle can be a great ally to an official if it isn't overused. You just have to use discretion to determine if a late whistle would be too late to sell a call.


When the coach makes a comment, just reply you're giving your partner first crack at it cause (s)he had a better angle, and it was right in front of 'em.

[DrakeM]

Sometimes holding your whistle backfires.
How late would your whistle have been?
I think on this play, you go get it regardless.
Unless 4-5 seconds passes between contact and violation.
You'll take some heat, but while the amount of contact on the play was consistent with what you had been letting go all night, the difference was this time it put the player at a disadvantage.
I have had similar situations and it takes a while before
you can say "I don't care how much crap I'm going to take, I've got to get it right."

[zebraman]

Been there...

Girls varsity game earlier this year. Two excellent teams. Team A pressing and B1 passes to B2. B2 catches the ball and gets bumped by A2. I pass on the call because it's unintentional, fairly mild contact and I didn't think it would affect the play. It turned out to be a bigger bump than I thought because B2 lost her balance a bit and after a second or two traveled. I then called the late foul. Coach A was not happy (A fans weren't real thrilled either). I happened to be in front of the A coach so I gave a real quick explanantion (not time for a whole dissertation on holding the whistle). I've reffed A enough that the coach let it go, but holding your whistle isn't always an exact science. In that case, I was going to cause unhappiness whichever way I went. As bad as it felt at the time, I still think it was the right call.

Z

[Bart Tyson]

I'm not sure i would come with a LATE WHISTLE on this play because it was slight contact and in front of your partner. For sure your partner could have and should have came with a late whistle. He kicked it, but does not give the player the right to do something to warrent a T.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by DrakeM
You'll take some heat, but while the amount of contact on the play was consistent with what you had been letting go all night, the difference was this time it put the player at a disadvantage.

I don't always agree with Drake, but this post is 100% correct. Good call, Drake.

Chuck

[John Schaefferkoetter]

Drake, I like your style. No matter the situation, make the call. Don't worry about your partner, it is a game of angles which he didn't see, but you did. If your partner is professional, he'll understand because you are a team, corrent?

[williebfree]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
.... He kicked it, but does not give the player the right to do something to warrent a T.

I agree, the player needs to keep his "attitude" in check. No excuse for out of control behavior.

As for a late whistle, I am slowly gaining the confidence to hold my whistle longer and longer to let the play develop. As mentioned earlier in this thread, letting the play develop is important. But at what point is it tooooo long?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by williebfree
As for a late whistle, I am slowly gaining the confidence to hold my whistle longer and longer to let the play develop. As mentioned earlier in this thread, letting the play develop is important. But at what point is it tooooo long?

Here's the dilemma I'm in with regard to a late whistle. I have been working this year on holding the whistle just that fraction of a second. But I've had a couple of partners who will whistle something right in front of me while I'm waiting to see what happens, and it makes me look bad. These aren't bad partners, either. They are just quicker on the whistle and more experienced and see the outcome faster than I do. And they are always right. But it still makes me feel incompetent. And I wonder if it affects my credibility with the coaches. Is this something I should try to pre-game -- now that the season's about over?

[Bart Tyson]

I have from time to time mentioned i have a slow whistle. However the higher up you go the less you will see this, because it is your partner who loses cridibility, other officials, coaches and supervisors know when the official calls out of their area. And if this official does this, i have to believe they are not getting the calls correct most of the time.

[stripes]

Originally posted by DrakeM
"I don't care how much crap I'm going to take, I've got to get it right."

This is a signifcant portion of my pregame. GET IT RIGHT! we're better as a crew if we do this one thing.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

After reading the original post, I am convinced even more that we as officials have to get past this soccer mentality of officiating basketball.

[Oz Referee]

Originally posted by Danvrapp

When the coach makes a comment, just reply you're giving your partner first crack at it cause (s)he had a better angle, and it was right in front of 'em.

I would rather a partnere doesn't say the last bit about me - it makes it sound like you are having to cover for your parnter's inadequacies. Not a great team building comment!

[jbduke]

Mark,

With all due respect, what would you have an official do in that situation? The late whistle seems appropriate and necessary here. If you bang the play immediately, you've not only reached, but you've made a plain lousy call. You may be vindicated after your whistle by seeing the physical aftermath, but to make the call immediately based on what happens just after such slight contact occurs is really unfair to the defender and to your partner. If you hold that whistle, you have a chance to a) not interrupt the game for some incidental contact, or b) whistle the contact if it turns out to be advantageous to the defender. I just really don't understand what the problem is here. I know at the highh school level, we are not (or at least shouldn't be) so concerned with trying hard to pass on 'game interruptors,' but there is a lot to be said for allowing the game to develop some flow.

jb

[Bart Tyson]

OK, just to put what some of you guys are saying into perspective. You see a player get a slight bump in front of your partner. You think a) go call the foul in front of your partner to get it right, b) slight contact i'll pass, oops he lost his balance and he is going oob, i'll go get it in front of my partner to get it right. Sorry but this is how i see this play, i see slight contact in front of my partner, i think, ok my partner is on top of the play, oops player lost his balance and goes oob, no problem my partner is on top of the play, oops he calls oob on the player. So a) my partner saw the contact but felt it wasn't enough contact to call a foul, or b) oops my partner did not have a perfect game.