As one official said just recently about giving props to NBA official Danny Crawford in regrds to fine job that he did in a recent game. I think we need to give props to Jim Burr, Mike Wood, and Ted Valentine. These three top D-1 officials did an AWESOME job last night with the Duke/Maryland war. I watched the whole thing and all three of them did a GREAT job. My recent comments about the crew that worked the Texas/Texas Tech game apply here. Any comments???

I was so tired a fell asleep during the halftime show - I only wished I could have stayed up with the game as well as they did. At least I saw the right half of the game! They did a great job in one of the key matchups of the year.

I watched most of it, but not all. My only complaint about the officiating, if I may be so bold, was that Ted Valentine confused the heck out of me on one of his OOB calls. He was the lead official and the ball squirted OOB over the endline, but across the lane from him. He came across and then proceeded to point both directions several times. He was obviously trying to tell us which player had touched it last: "Off you, going this way, off you, going this way!!"

But to anyone who was not standing right next to him, it looked like "Maryland, no Duke! No, Maryland! No, Duke!

It was probably the right call, I couldn't tell from my couch, but the signal was awful.

Chuck

Ted Valentine is very animated at times,he seems to get into the game like no college official I have ever seen.I can watch him work every day. I guess you can tell I am his number one fan. Still looking for someone to share with me what camp staff he is on,I would love to attend that camp!

I saw what he did and I understood it right away. He pointed directly to the player it went off, confused the announcers who called it wrong, then indicated the direction the ball would go (to Maryland). It then appeared that someone else on the court (or maybe Coach K - he was right by the Duke bench) questioned the call, so he again pointed to the player emphatically then signalled Maryland ball. Not sure if this is a college mechanic, but I think that by watching on TV with audio, the situation was more confusing due to the announcers not knowing what he called.

I have seen the same mechanic used before (maybe by Valentine!) so it didn't seem to me like he was going back and forth, but I can see where it might look that way.

That was my only point, Coach, that it LOOKS confusing. I knew exactly what he was doing, too. But if you're just an ordinary "Joe Fan", it probably looked like he didn't know what was going on! I personally would prefer (listen to me, critiquing Ted Valentine! :rolleyes: ) one crisp direction of indication, and then after a second or two, a less emphatic indication of who touched it last. Emphatically pointing at a player might be interpreted as indicating direction.

But hey, if that was the biggest problem in the game, then there really wasn't too much to complain about!!

Chuck

Did Ted Valentine get it right? yes he did and that's why he's on these type of big games.The problem with TV is the clowns that are calling the games don't have a clue about how officials "sell" calls and if they did they wouldn't have the people watching the games confused. Turn off your volume and put on your favorite music, then watch Ted do his thing on the floor. Nobody does it better!

I like anything that makes the announcers look stupid! I am amazed that they see all of these games and miss some obvious calls. There was another game where the ref clearly signalled a foul on the floor and waved off the basket (never gave any sign of a PC foul). The announcer said "offensive foul" and then was perplexed when the offense got the ball back on the baseline!

You cannot listen to announcers.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

I watched most of it, but not all. My only complaint about the officiating, if I may be so bold, was that Ted Valentine confused the heck out of me on one of his OOB calls. He was the lead official and the ball squirted OOB over the endline, but across the lane from him. He came across and then proceeded to point both directions several times. He was obviously trying to tell us which player had touched it last: "Off you, going this way, off you, going this way!!" But to anyone who was not standing right next to him, it looked like "Maryland, no Duke! No, Maryland! No, Duke! It was probably the right call, I couldn't tell from my couch, but the signal was awful. Chuck

You should know by now that announcers do not have a clue half the time. Even coaches do not have a clue and that is when you give one signal. Valentine was just selling the call because it was not so obvious to everyone that the player touched it. He pointed at the guy that last touched it, then pointed the way it was going. I have even implemented that into my game. Because if I point at the guy that last touched it, it is hard to tell me I did not see it very clearly. Yeah they can argue, but I can better explain it if it comes up as an issue.

Peace

Re: You cannot listen to announcers.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

You should know by now that announcers do not have a clue half the time. Even coaches do not have a clue and that is when you give one signal.

I'm not sure why we're talking about announcers, but I didn't bring it up. I didn't even hear what the announcers said. I had the sound muted b/c my wife was asleep. I agree, the announcers are usually pretty dumb when it comes to anything having to do with officiating. But my original point had nothing to do with the announcers.

Quote:

Valentine was just selling the call because it was not so obvious to everyone that the player touched it.

My point was that in selling it, he made it even LESS obvious. All he had to do was point emphatically one way (do it several times, for all I care). Then indicate the player that touched it LESS emphatically.

Ted's selling job was to point both directions with equal emphasis, and to do it several times each way. I just thought that caused more confusion that it alleviated.

As I've said before, I'm sure the call was right, and I thought the officials did a terrific job. I just thought that one thing could be done better, that's all.

Although I did notice Mike Wood give the "clean block/all ball" signal. I thought we all agreed that we shouldn't do that? :)

Chuck

Again,Big time officials get big time games! No one is taking a your reply out of context,you may feel like that and that's your right. I just love to defend Ted Valentine

Re: Re: You cannot listen to announcers.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Although I did notice Mike Wood give the "clean block/all ball" signal. I thought we all agreed that we shouldn't do that? :) Chuck

OK Chuck, this is college ball. That is an actual mechanic, unlike what we do in HS ball. They also do not do the "stop play" signal either for the most part. College mechanics are very different that HS mechanics. And that is something they are allowed to use. So unless there is a bunch of college officials talking about college ball, then we are not allowed to do that. :)

Peace

Did anybody hear Coach K possibly scream out the F#@@ word twice. My son looked at me and I thought the same. The only reason I bring it up was it was loud enough for the Microphones to pick it up and that place was rocking (loud) most of the night....

Re: Re: Re: You cannot listen to announcers.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias Quote: Although I did notice Mike Wood give the "clean block/all ball" signal. I thought we all agreed that we shouldn't do that? :) Chuck OK Chuck, this is college ball. That is an actual mechanic, unlike what we do in HS ball. They also do not do the "stop play" signal either for the most part. College mechanics are very different that HS mechanics. And that is something they are allowed to use. So unless there is a bunch of college officials talking about college ball, then we are not allowed to do that. :) Peace

Since when is this a collegiate mechanic???????

I saw the game also and thought they did a great job and I knew that they had to be some of the best officials in the game since it was Duke vs Maryland. I am just wondering which official was which. Who is the older guy with the extremely full head of hair? Which one is Ted Valentine?

That block shot signal is not a college mechanic. I think it can be used sometimes (late after the play has ended) to communicate yes I was on this play and yes although it looked ugly there was a blocked shot.

Personally, I think there were other fouls called that were block shots called in the game. Also, too many bail out plays at the rim level called fouls. Finally, way to many "and 1's" on easy plays to the hoop.

Other than that, their credibility level is outstanding that is why nobody questions the types of plays I mentioned above.

Not much different than.................
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bigwhistle

Quote:

Since when is this a collegiate mechanic???????

The same time and place in the mechanics book that you will see pointing to the floor on out of bounds, or any number of things that "sell" the call. D1 Officials are held to a much higher standard and are allowed to do things that us HS Officials are not allowed to do. And if you watch enough college basketball or go to many college basketball games, you will see what I am talking about.

Let me put it this way, it is acceptable if the assignor for that conference wants them to do it that way. This is not the NF, they have more leeway.

Peace

There is only one on the court.
 

The only Black guy on the court. :)

Men not boys.
 

No, but I sure the glad that college officials are not giving Ts for every curse word. I think we need to grow up a little here. These are not children they are dealing with. These are adults.

just a question
 

here in florida we do not catch much greif for using college born mechanics, and it is actually preferred by our assignor. i guess that makes it difficult for me to understand where you guys are speaking from. could you give some input as to what you are told to do by your supervisors.

Re: There is only one on the court.
 

Actually, there were lots of black guys on the court. Most of them were wearing shorts tho :D

Chuck

I think we need to be mindful of other people's race, I am wondering how many African American officials may have felt that when describing Ted Valentine Rut could have been more professional. Just out of consideration for African Americans I would have liked to see him choose his words a little better. I am not saying he meant any harm in his description of Ted Valentine,I just feel he is respected by other officials on this website and I would hate to have him loose the respect from fellow African American officials.
Love and Respect!

I thought we were supposed to disregard people's race altogether, not be mindful of it. (I can play the PC game too!)

Quote:

I am wondering how many African American officials may have felt that when describing Ted Valentine Rut could have been more professional.

I don't know. Let's ask one. HEY RUT!!! Did you feel that you could have been more professional in describing Ted Valentine?

Quote:

Love and Respect!

Believe me, we ALL love and respect Teddy V. Anybody who tosses Bobby Knight and then gives him his third T before he leaves gets a plaque in my Officiating Hall of Fame.

I don't think there's any shame or stigma in being called a black official, if one is, in fact a black official. Just my personal opinion. Of course, I'm not black; so I may just be full of hot air.

Chuck

Chuck, I think most of us here are full of hot air from time to time! :D

What I am about to say is not personal at all.
 

Love,

I am an educated man. I have a mother who has a Ph.D in Sociology and was the first African-American Chairperson at the University that she still works at. So my understanding of race is very well in hand. I am Black first, African-American second. For your information, Black is my race, African-American is my ethnicity. There is a huge difference. You can look at me and tell the I am Black, but not know that I am African-American. The only thing that makes me African-American is where I was born and where I where I claim citizenship. I know enough Black people that would not claim being African-American at all. And since I know little about exactly where Teddy Valintine was born or what his origin lies, it would be hard for me to just say that he is an African-American. It would be a good bet that he is, but considering that I do not know that for sure, he was the only Black person on the court.

I understand that we have gotten so caught up in the PC era that we have lost our good thinking, but there is a big difference between someone's race and someone's ethnicity. Race is the physical color that someone is. Black, white or yellow. I would give the educated terms but I did not read that much in my African American Minor in college ;). I can be Black and be Nigerian or Canadian or Cuban. But if I a Cuban-American or British-American and you not know my race. Technically you can have African-Americans and they be physically white. Not all Africans are Black.

The problem with being PC we have become Politically Stupid in the process. And that is why I am responding to you. You are so worried about offending someone, you do not realize that it would be hard to be an insult from someone that is "probably" no different than I am.

Not personal but had to set the record straight.

Peace

Duke/Maryland officials
 

By the way just for the record, Mike Wood is white and so is Jimmy Burr. I however do not know if they are Irish, German, Scottish, Swedish, African American or whatever. I thought I would share this so as to not offend anyone since people were asking only about Valentine.

Can we talk plays/philosophy/rules please and leave the political civil rights stuff for another forum???

Just a suggestion. For the record, I am white and my partners in my game tomorrow night are white and black respectively. I will be sure to ask about their family origins during our pregame discussions!!!! :)

Goodness gracious!!!

Sad that I have to say this but..........
 

Let me say this if you have not already read what I said. I am Black first!!! Before I step onto the court being Black or African-American is what people are going to judge me by. After that you see that I am an official. I can take off the strips or the Blue Umpire Shirt, but I can never take off my skin. It is what I am, it is what I will be until the day I die. And what I am and what I will always be, will be the color that I am. And considering that I have partners that are Black that I work with on a regular basis, we do not just put away what we are because we step onto a court. It makes me proud considering that two of the most respected officials in the business are Black/African-American. Now that might not mean a thing to anyone else, but someone that has grown up learning the history of this country and the history of American Black people, it gives me great pride that two individuals have gone thru what they have and have still achieved. I would love for us all to hold hands and to sing songs and quote Martin Luther King Jr. would be great. But the reality is that everytime I step onto the court and I am the only Black face in the entire gym, it matters to someone. And if it did not, I would have never had the things happen to me in a short period of time where race seemed to be the only thing. And that is not just dealing with white people I might add. But that is another story all together.

Peace

Unfortunately, that's Coach K's favorite word. :(

Re: Duke/Maryland officials
 

What is the problem with discussing this? I have comments made to me all the time about my race and jokes made about my race. Not necessarily in a negative way, but there is a person in the State that I live that has the exact same first and last initials as mine but is white. So when people see our names on a contract, they think they are working with one or the other. And because my name is not a sterotypical African-American last name, many people are surpised that I am Black. So I have to deal with it almost every day, why can we not discuss it here?

And if you have ever done a game with an All-Black team and an All-white team and the officials are all of one color of one of the teams, you will have to deal with it then. I did a game in the North Central Illinois Conference (home team and all-white) and a Chicago Public League team (visiting team and all-Black team about an hour away from Chicago), you tell me that political considerations was not a factor. Well it was and how it was would surprise you.

Peace

Good grief! :(

Does it ever occur to you to just congratulate soembody without second guessing every call?

I bet you're a real pip to work with. :(

Man do I agree.
 

I second that TH!!! :)

Peace

Good grief! :(

Does it ever occur to you to just congratulate soembody without second guessing every call?

I bet you're a real pip to work with. :( [/B][/QUOTE]

Why should I congratulate them? They've worked big games like that before. Not likes its that big of a deal. Anyways, if they watched the tape they would see what I was talking about. Just expressing my opinion on things they could have done better in the game. That is what I do with all of my games. Thats the problem with many officials, after the game is over, they say "We got through that one" or "We did a great job" without ever trying to pinpoint things or situations that could have been handled differently.

It's easy to pat yourself or somebody else on the back after the game. The real experience behind it, is to find ways to get better.

And again, I am expressing my thoughts on the game. I'm not "knocking" anybody on the crew of the game. Obviously, BKTBALLREF cannnot understand that.

Sure you aren't.