per the air ball question, it would be considered the same as if he passed it to himself,, a no,no,,,,, definate violation.

[This message has been edited by barney (edited February 04, 2000).]

Have a couple of questions that seem "far out", but have actually happened in games this year. All involve player "shooting" at the wrong basket.

1. Player shoots at wrong basket. Buzzer sounds while ball is in the air. Since this is not an attempt, is ball dead at buzzer so that if ball goes in, the basket does not count?

2. Player shoots at wrong basket. Shoots an airball and gets his own rebound. Is this traveling?

3. Player shoots at wrong basket. Ball hits only the backboard and he gets his own rebound. If he has dribbled before the "shot", if he dribbles again is it double dribble?

Correct interpretation on #1 and #2, John, since in neither situation was it considered a shot (as you said). In the 3rd situation, though, the backboard of the opposing team is considered the same as the floor. So, if he "shot" it against the backboard, it is by rule the same as starting a dribble on the floor. If he catches it, his dribble is done and he can't dribble again. If he lets it bounce on the floor first, then continues dribbling it without grabbing it first, it is a legal dribble and he may continue up court. Can't say I've ever had that happen in one of my games, but it no doubt does happen once in a while.

Hmmm, now that I think of it, if he hasn't dribbled yet on that "airball" at the wrong basket, would that be considered the end of his dribble right then, but he could still pass? Or is it a violation for having touched the ball again before it hit the floor on that "dribble?" You guys with rules books at hand will have to comment on that one. :-)

[This message has been edited by Todd VandenAkker (edited February 04, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker on 02-04-2000 09:23 AM
In the 3rd situation, though, the backboard of the opposing team is considered the same as the floor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a new one on me. Do you have a reference for the opposing team's backboard being part of the floor?


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Brian Johnson

I believe you are correct, Barney. But, if I have not dribbled yet, threw the ball in the air over a defender's head then caught up to it and grabbed it AFTER it had hit the floor, I would be fine but could not dribble it "again" if I was holding it. That would not be considered a pass to myself, but technically a dribble. So with the "airball" at the wrong basket and not having dribbled before that "shot," if I grabbed it AFTER it hit the floor once I should be OK (unless I try to dribble after having caught it). Now, if I did the same thing, but grabbed it again BEFORE it touched the floor (just like the airball situation), is that a violation? I think it would be then, same as if I had moved my pivot foot or simply took a little hop and held the ball in a different spot.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PublicBJ on 02-04-2000 01:28 PM
This is a new one on me. Do you have a reference for the opposing team's backboard being part of the floor?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't have a reference at hand, but I have studied that situation before and used it in an association meeting. It raised lots of interesting discussion by virtue of the various related scenarios that could occur. I DO know, though, that the rule book specifically says the opponent's backboard is considered the same as the floor. There is also a Casebook situation describing that play--I just don't have the specific page number at hand.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker on 02-04-2000 01:36 PM
I don't have a reference at hand, but I have studied that situation before and used it in an association meeting. It raised lots of interesting discussion by virtue of the various related scenarios that could occur. I DO know, though, that the rule book specifically says the opponent's backboard is considered the same as the floor. There is also a Casebook situation describing that play--I just don't have the specific page number at hand.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Rule 4-4-5
Case 4.4.5, 4.15.4C